Author Topic: A-Roid  (Read 9208 times)

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Chisox17

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Reply #50 on: February 07, 2009, 03:22:31 pm
Quote from: wayton5646;383503
I could have sworn his name was on the Mitchell report.

It wasn't.  In fact, the White Sox were the only club in MLB that wanted to voluntarily test themselves to show they were all clean.
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Captain Obvious

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Reply #51 on: February 07, 2009, 03:25:19 pm
Quote from: Ninerballin;383472
Thanks Captain Obvious..


Quote from: 49timesthelovin;383479
Thanks Captain Oblivious,


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metro

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Reply #52 on: February 07, 2009, 04:52:12 pm
Quote from: Tintin;383520
Chris Weinke coundn't play baseball and won the Heisman, Josh Booty couldn't couldn't make it and still played college football, JR House left a scholarship at WVU to play QB and got 15 AB's in the majors.  Mark Farris (did you know him Metro?) couldn't make it with Piuttsburgh and ran the option at A and M.  The Pirates All Star CF Nate McLouth turned down football offers to play baseball.  I dare say a whole lot of good football players are playing pro baseball.

Tintin


Wow u dropped a Mark Farris, he was my 3rd baseman 2 yrs, and u tied in Josh Booty who we played (marlins) on a frequent basis.  That said, Booty was an amazing athlete, he could run, had pop, and the best arm second to Jose Guillen I ever saw live.   Farris was a medicre at best athlete.

Btw, athleticism to me is about proprioception.  That's the ability to sense where your body is in space and control it. That's why many world class sprinters suck as WRs, all they can do is run.


metro

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Reply #53 on: February 07, 2009, 05:01:42 pm
Btw
College and pro scouts define athleticism by how much unteachable talent do you have.  U can't teach speed, height, jumping, or hand eye.    
That's what makes me throw out soccer.  Yes there are some great athletes but most of soccer is learned behavior from 5-9 white guys who couldn't sniff Larry Fitgerald in any contest but soccer.  He'd beat them at 25 other sports.


N1NER

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Reply #54 on: February 07, 2009, 05:14:49 pm
Dave Winfield was drafted by MLB, the NBA, the ABA, and the NFL.


9erken

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Reply #55 on: February 07, 2009, 05:25:55 pm
Quote from: metro;383549
Btw
College and pro scouts define athleticism by how much unteachable talent do you have.  U can't teach speed, height, jumping, or hand eye.    
That's what makes me throw out soccer.  Yes there are some great athletes but most of soccer is learned behavior from 5-9 white guys who couldn't sniff Larry Fitgerald in any contest but soccer.  He'd beat them at 25 other sports.
Do you mean soccer in the US? Exaggeration, though I agree the best athletes here do not play it.

Soccer worldwide? That's ridiculous. If you watch world-class soccer athletes, they jump as high as Fitzgerald and run way faster than he does. Think about it this way: Every top athlete in Brazil, a country of about 200 mil people, plays soccer. The fastest runners, the highest jumpers, the guys with the greatest hand-eye (though really it's foot-eye) coordination....they all play soccer there from a young age. Most of South America is the same. Same in Europe, unless you're really tall. Same in Africa, with the exception of rare sprinters and b-ball players. It's becoming true in Asia as well, though at least some Japanese athletes play baseball. As a whole, the sport of soccer has better athletes, based on your criteria, than any other sport.

Not really sure what height has to do with athleticism, that strikes me as more related to quirks of position or basketball.


metro

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Reply #56 on: February 07, 2009, 05:42:07 pm
Quote from: 9erken;383554
Do you mean soccer in the US? Exaggeration, though I agree the best athletes here do not play it.

Soccer worldwide? That's ridiculous. If you watch world-class soccer athletes, they jump as high as Fitzgerald and run way faster than he does. Think about it this way: Every top athlete in Brazil, a country of about 200 mil people, plays soccer. The fastest runners, the highest jumpers, the guys with the greatest hand-eye (though really it's foot-eye) coordination....they all play soccer there from a young age. Most of South America is the same. Same in Europe, unless you're really tall. Same in Africa, with the exception of rare sprinters and b-ball players. It's becoming true in Asia as well, though at least some Japanese athletes play baseball. As a whole, the sport of soccer has better athletes, based on your criteria, than any other sport.

Not really sure what height has to do with athleticism, that strikes me as more related to quirks of position or basketball.


I agree with the Brazil theory.  I was speaking in terms of US.

Anyways, almost every ss, 2b, and cf in MLB baseball have = raw abilities (cannot teach) as any nba gaurd or nfl wr/cb.  
And the original topic of Arod, jerk he is, he at 19 was as fast strong and coordinated as any usa athlete- he was a freak.

And height is a major evaluation at every
US sport.  Every sport loves a 6-2 deer.


49timesthelovin

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Reply #57 on: February 07, 2009, 07:26:57 pm
Quote from: metro;383558
I agree with the Brazil theory. I was speaking in terms of US.
 
Anyways, almost every ss, 2b, and cf in MLB baseball have = raw abilities (cannot teach) as any nba gaurd or nfl wr/cb.
And the original topic of Arod, jerk he is, he at 19 was as fast strong and coordinated as any usa athlete- he was a freak.
 
And height is a major evaluation at every
US sport. Every sport loves a 6-2 deer.

I think if our best athletes like Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Larry Fitzgerald etc were soccer players, then we'd be just as good as the rest of the world in soccer, but our best athletes don't play that sport. There are guys around the world who if they played football, basketball or baseball their whole lives instead of soccer, they could have played professionally over here.  We see that today.  There are more guys from Latin America playing pro baseball than Americans.  There are is also an increase in Japanese players in that sport.  Also, look at a lot of the Europeans who are in the NBA.  Football is pretty much exclusive to America.


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Reply #58 on: February 07, 2009, 08:27:03 pm
Quote from: Charlotte2002;383451
Not to defend ARod, because I am not a fan, but if this is true then all of the other 103 people who failed the test should be revealed as well.

Agreed.  If nothing else, it should be known whether they have or have not taken 'roids while/before they are considered for the Hall of Fame.  I would not vote for a 'roids user for the Hall, but some will if they are "honest" about it.  I use the term "honest" very tongue-in-cheek, as these users were very secretive and deceitful when using the juice and passing it off as "hard work" over the course of their careers.  Now, when they are found out, everyone is supposed to forgive and forget and believe that those numbers would have been close to the same without the juice.

Quote from: Chisox17;383467
As long as my boy Frank Thomas is clean, I'm happy :biggrin:

He was big when he began playing.  Who knows if he did them or not.  As injury prone as he has been over his career, that would be the only sign.  His size has not changed that much since coming into the league.

Quote from: wayton5646;383502
So there are going to be no consequences at all for taking roids?  No suspension, no fine, nothing?

Only their reputations will be damaged, and hopefully their induction(s) into the HOF will get cancelled.  Those will be the only penalties that will be essentially be assessed.

When you have a no-balls Commisioner as the head of your sport, it can get ruined in a hurry, or over a 20-year period.  Thanks, Bud.



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Tintin

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Reply #59 on: February 07, 2009, 08:35:56 pm
Quote from: metro;383548
Wow u dropped a Mark Farris, he was my 3rd baseman 2 yrs, and u tied in Josh Booty who we played (marlins) on a frequent basis.  That said, Booty was an amazing athlete, he could run, had pop, and the best arm second to Jose Guillen I ever saw live.   Farris was a medicre at best athlete.

Btw, athleticism to me is about proprioception.  That's the ability to sense where your body is in space and control it. That's why many world class sprinters suck as WRs, all they can do is run.


Unfortunately for me Metro, I'm a huge Pirates fan.  When you don't win, you spend a lot of time trying to figure out where the help is coming from.
I feel like I saw him play (Augusta, Lynchburg?) in Greensboro and in Winston Salem.

I would also say that hitting a 95 mile an hour fastball is a skill that cannot be learned (much less hitting a good hook or waiting on a change up).  You either have it or you don't and it can only be coached if the skill is there.
The same goes with pitching.  The difference between this and golf, is that you don't have to be an athlete to be a golfer.


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cltniners

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Reply #60 on: February 07, 2009, 08:51:24 pm
clt is ready for espn to care about steroid use in the nfl like it cares about mlb.


everyone's fav panther peppers is a juicer and no one cares.


JLaw25

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Reply #61 on: February 07, 2009, 08:57:30 pm
Quote from: Charlotte2002;383451
Not to defend ARod, because I am not a fan, but if this is true then all of the other 103 people who failed the test should be revealed as well.

I agree we should see their names too...however, more than likely nobody would care because they are most likely no namers or fringe AAA guys.
 
103 names on this list, numerous others in the Mitchell Report...I got news for everyone....there are a hell of a lot more doing than we will ever know about.


casstommy

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Reply #62 on: February 07, 2009, 09:20:12 pm
Quote from: 9erken;383554
Do you mean soccer in the US? Exaggeration, though I agree the best athletes here do not play it.
 
Soccer worldwide? That's ridiculous. If you watch world-class soccer athletes, they jump as high as Fitzgerald and run way faster than he does. Think about it this way: Every top athlete in Brazil, a country of about 200 mil people, plays soccer. The fastest runners, the highest jumpers, the guys with the greatest hand-eye (though really it's foot-eye) coordination....they all play soccer there from a young age. Most of South America is the same. Same in Europe, unless you're really tall. Same in Africa, with the exception of rare sprinters and b-ball players. It's becoming true in Asia as well, though at least some Japanese athletes play baseball. As a whole, the sport of soccer has better athletes, based on your criteria, than any other sport.
 
Not really sure what height has to do with athleticism, that strikes me as more related to quirks of position or basketball.

 
Dead on.  Great post.
 
I dont understand.  Do non soccer fans think that all soccer requires is running?


Jersey Niner32

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Reply #63 on: February 07, 2009, 09:51:48 pm
Quote from: cltniners;383596
clt is ready for espn to care about steroid use in the nfl like it cares about mlb.


everyone's fav panther peppers is a juicer and no one cares.

Love how you guys turned on Peppers as soon as hit the market.
-He had one bad year and suddenly he's "a juicer."  Dude you have no evidence to base that off of.  If he is ever proven to use or whatever, fine.  But as of now, he is a dominant DE who at times can be spotty (that's about it.)
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Jersey Niner32

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Reply #64 on: February 07, 2009, 09:58:06 pm
Quote from: metro;383549
Btw
College and pro scouts define athleticism by how much unteachable talent do you have.  U can't teach speed, height, jumping, or hand eye.    
That's what makes me throw out soccer.  Yes there are some great athletes but most of soccer is learned behavior from 5-9 white guys who couldn't sniff Larry Fitgerald in any contest but soccer.  He'd beat them at 25 other sports.

Dude what are you saying? (I'm a "former" athlete myself, but I have to say you are a way off base.)
-Soccer requires a lot of speed to be able to go up and down the field for the entire game (especially if you play forward.)
-It requires tons of coordination.  You ever see a player pick up a corner kick whiles it's traveling and re-direct it, or how about a goalie stop a shot?  
-There is plenty of athleticism required to be a good soccer player (and this coming from a former lacrosse player.)
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cltniners

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Reply #65 on: February 08, 2009, 08:26:19 am
Quote from: Jersey Niner32;383610
Love how you guys turned on Peppers as soon as hit the market.
-He had one bad year and suddenly he's "a juicer."  Dude you have no evidence to base that off of.  If he is ever proven to use or whatever, fine.  But as of now, he is a dominant DE who at times can be spotty (that's about it.)


clt has never liked peppers and considers him overrated...and a juicer


Panthers' Peppers Suspended 4 Games

Article from:
    AP Online
Article date:
    November 15, 2002
Author:
    JENNA FRYER, AP Sports Writer


Carolina Panthers rookie defensive end Julius Peppers was suspended for four games by the NFL on Thursday for violating the league's substance- abuse policy, his agent said.

Agent Marvin Demoff said the league office told him that Peppers had tested positive for a banned substance in a dietary supplement. A source close to Peppers, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Peppers did not test positive for steroids

Demoff said Peppers would appeal the suspension, meaning he can play in Sunday's game against Tampa Bay.

In a statement released together with one from his agent, Peppers said he couldn't discuss the suspension until there's a ruling on his .


metro

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Reply #66 on: February 08, 2009, 10:14:06 am
Quote from: Jersey Niner32;383613
Dude what are you saying? (I'm a "former" athlete myself, but I have to say you are a way off base.)
-Soccer requires a lot of speed to be able to go up and down the field for the entire game (especially if you play forward.)
-It requires tons of coordination.  You ever see a player pick up a corner kick whiles it's traveling and re-direct it, or how about a goalie stop a shot?  
-There is plenty of athleticism required to be a good soccer player (and this coming from a former lacrosse player.)

you missed the point,
when a scout goes to a football, baseball, or hoops game, they grade out a body and will go after the kid based on pure god given traits- ht wt speed.  Stuff you can't teach.

in soccer, I can't see a coach going to a HS soccer game and saying "he seems like a great athlete and upside we can mold."  In soccer you get to the next level on skills.  I mean would an MLS team draft someone who was athletic hoping they pan out?  Hell no.  You gotta have soccer skills from day 1.  I am not saying soccer players are clumsy or non athletic or slow.  I am saying there is a different science to finding players.


CharSFNiners

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Reply #67 on: February 08, 2009, 10:57:18 am
Quote from: metro;383682

in soccer, I can't see a coach going to a HS soccer game and saying "he seems like a great athlete and upside we can mold."  In soccer you get to the next level on skills.  I mean would an MLS team draft someone who was athletic hoping they pan out?  Hell no.  You gotta have soccer skills from day 1.  I am not saying soccer players are clumsy or non athletic or slow.  I am saying there is a different science to finding players.

I'll agree with you a bit on this.  You do have to have some developed skill, that's just a trait of the game, and what makes it tough to pick up, and probably have it much more developed than a prospect for the NBA or NFL.  But baseball is no different in that aspect so I don't see your point.  In baseball you can catch and throw a ball all day but if you can't hit a 95 mph fastball, and then next time up have to deal with some with a good curve, or slider, you're screwed.  Same way with soccer, if your footwork, body control, and accuracy are sub-par, it doesn't matter how fast you can run, jump, or kick the ball.

I understand baseball is your sport and you'll defend it to the death, just don't be so blind to sports you believe to be inferior to yours.


Jersey Niner32

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Reply #68 on: February 08, 2009, 11:01:33 am
Quote from: metro;383682
you missed the point,
when a scout goes to a football, baseball, or hoops game, they grade out a body and will go after the kid based on pure god given traits- ht wt speed.  Stuff you can't teach.

in soccer, I can't see a coach going to a HS soccer game and saying "he seems like a great athlete and upside we can mold."  In soccer you get to the next level on skills.  I mean would an MLS team draft someone who was athletic hoping they pan out?  Hell no.  You gotta have soccer skills from day 1.  I am not saying soccer players are clumsy or non athletic or slow.  I am saying there is a different science to finding players.

I get what you mean man.
-But to say that there are no "pure athletes" in soccer...I don't buy it...because in your last post you said you can't coach speed and coordination and you need them for soccer.
-Then a good coach would fill in the rest.

But I'll just agree to disagree.
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Jersey Niner32

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Reply #69 on: February 08, 2009, 11:02:24 am
Quote from: cltniners;383660
clt has never liked peppers and considers him overrated...and a juicer


Panthers' Peppers Suspended 4 Games

Article from:
    AP Online
Article date:
    November 15, 2002
Author:
    JENNA FRYER, AP Sports Writer


Carolina Panthers rookie defensive end Julius Peppers was suspended for four games by the NFL on Thursday for violating the league's substance- abuse policy, his agent said.

Agent Marvin Demoff said the league office told him that Peppers had tested positive for a banned substance in a dietary supplement. A source close to Peppers, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Peppers did not test positive for steroids

Demoff said Peppers would appeal the suspension, meaning he can play in Sunday's game against Tampa Bay.

In a statement released together with one from his agent, Peppers said he couldn't discuss the suspension until there's a ruling on his .

touche. Was that his only suspension?
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metro

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Reply #70 on: February 08, 2009, 11:24:55 am
Quote from: CharSFNiners;383692
But baseball is no different in that aspect so I don't see your point.  In baseball you can catch and throw a ball all day but if you can't hit a 95 mph fastball, and then next time up have to deal with some with a good curve, or slider, you're screwed.
huh?
half of the first RD in baseball is full of guys that can't play dead.  They are pure raw athletes that make scouts drool.  They know they can pay them $2m bonus and stick them in the minors for 5 yrs and teach them to play the game over time.  Every position player selected in that 1st rd is world class athletically  (which was Arod) but he had some skills early but his raw ability got him to the first pick, not how good at ground balls he was.

btw, I don't hate soccer.  I played travel soccer thru middle school.  I just know that in the USA, 99% of the best athletes end up in the big 3 sports and whoever made the original comment that baseball requires no athletic ability compared to soceer, doesn't understand sports or recruiting.


ninerball49

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Reply #71 on: February 12, 2009, 09:56:47 pm
Quote from: cltniners;383660
clt has never liked peppers and considers him overrated...and a juicer


Panthers' Peppers Suspended 4 Games

Article from:
    AP Online
Article date:
    November 15, 2002
Author:
    JENNA FRYER, AP Sports Writer


Carolina Panthers rookie defensive end Julius Peppers was suspended for four games by the NFL on Thursday for violating the league's substance- abuse policy, his agent said.

Agent Marvin Demoff said the league office told him that Peppers had tested positive for a banned substance in a dietary supplement. A source close to Peppers, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Peppers did not test positive for steroids

Demoff said Peppers would appeal the suspension, meaning he can play in Sunday's game against Tampa Bay.

In a statement released together with one from his agent, Peppers said he couldn't discuss the suspension until there's a ruling on his .


He was suspended because of ephedrine.  It's a banned substance but it's used for a stimulant, appetite suppressant, concentration aid, decongestant, and to treat hypotension associated with anaesthesia.  None of those things relate to performance enhancement..it just also happens to be found in some performance enhancing drugs..which proves nor means anything except the NFL is pretty tough on steroids unlike some other sports.  Yes, that was his only suspension.  I hope you've never taken cold medicine..otherwise you're a hypocrite.


as for A Rod, MLB is the problem.  not him.  singling out one guy in a list of over 100 is a joke as well as their 100% tolerance policy.  i wouldn't be criticizing him if i were a fan of any team in the league considering i bet players from each and every team are on that list of 103 that tested positive in that same time period.
we have football

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CharSFNiners

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Reply #72 on: February 13, 2009, 12:37:48 am
Quote from: metro;383702
huh?
half of the first RD in baseball is full of guys that can't play dead.  They are pure raw athletes that make scouts drool.  They know they can pay them $2m bonus and stick them in the minors for 5 yrs and teach them to play the game over time.  Every position player selected in that 1st rd is world class athletically  (which was Arod) but he had some skills early but his raw ability got him to the first pick, not how good at ground balls he was.

It's been so long I don't even remember totally what we were talking about.  Oh yea, I don't find baseball players as athletic as soccer players.  So b/c they have athletic ability and can stick them in the minors for 5 years doesn't mean they're more athletic than a soccer player.  This isn't going to end you think one thing I think another, you'll think I'm lucid and I'll think the same as you.

Quote
half of the first RD in baseball is full of guys that can't play dead. They are pure raw athletes that make scouts drool. They know they can pay them $2m bonus and stick them in the minors for 5 yrs and teach them to play the game over time. Every position player selected in that 1st rd is world class athletically (which was Arod) but he had some skills early but his raw ability got him to the first pick, not how good at ground balls he was.

btw, I don't hate soccer. I played travel soccer thru middle school. I just know that in the USA, 99% of the best athletes end up in the big 3 sports and whoever made the original comment that baseball requires no athletic ability compared to soceer, doesn't understand sports or recruiting

And I played travel baseball until I was in 6th grade, it was only a few years, but athletically those guys were nothing superior against some of the kids I faced when I traveled in the fall for soccer (baseball was late spring/summer).  If you are going to compare the big 3 to people playing soccer in the states, then that's like comparing the NBDL to the NBA.  MLS is a minor league compared to something like the Champion's League in Europe.  American kids grow up with dreams set on football, basketball, and baseball, not playing MLS ball.  Go across the pond for that.  It's just the way our culture is directed.


 

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