Author Topic: THE TIME IS NOW!  (Read 7065 times)

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SWOLE49er

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on: July 11, 2009, 03:35:52 pm
Join the movement. THE TIME IS NOW!
 
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« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 04:45:01 pm by SWOLE49er »
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SWOLE49er

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Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 04:36:37 pm
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X-49er

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Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 04:39:39 pm
He will or won't get in after the steroid cloud is cleared.  His numbers are paltry compared to the users, and until they are sorted out Mattingly does not stand a chance.  Comparing is batting numbers with Maz or Ozzie is a joke, because those guys got in for being the best middle infield defensive players of their era.  Mattingly was a great defensive 1st Basemen, but comparing his fielding percentage to Ozzie and Maz is frivolous seeing that he gets credit for not dropping throws to first base.

What it's going to take is for the veteran's committee to get him over the hump.  He has no rings and played for the Yankees when they were horrible.  Those two things are going to be hard to overcome to gain entry from the writers vote.  As I said though, when some of his counterparts become members of the veteran's committee he will have his best shot at getting in.
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NJNiner12

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Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 04:55:32 pm
if he gets in than Keith Hernandez should be in


NLP

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Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 05:00:06 pm
Quote from: NJNiner12;418691
if he gets in than Keith Hernandez should be in
Definitely had the better mustache and TV career.
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lucky57

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Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 08:15:45 pm
Quote from: X-49er;418690
He will or won't get in after the steroid cloud is cleared.  His numbers are paltry compared to the users, and until they are sorted out Mattingly does not stand a chance.  Comparing is batting numbers with Maz or Ozzie is a joke, because those guys got in for being the best middle infield defensive players of their era.  Mattingly was a great defensive 1st Basemen, but comparing his fielding percentage to Ozzie and Maz is frivolous seeing that he gets credit for not dropping throws to first base.

What it's going to take is for the veteran's committee to get him over the hump.  He has no rings and played for the Yankees when they were horrible.  Those two things are going to be hard to overcome to gain entry from the writers vote.  As I said though, when some of his counterparts become members of the veteran's committee he will have his best shot at getting in.


Right...because eventually the veterans committee will let in almost anyone to the "hall of very good"


Tintin

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Reply #6 on: July 11, 2009, 08:48:03 pm
After Dawson, Parker, Santo, Hodges and Murphy get in (2-3 of them don't belong), then I'll think about Mattingley.  
He was good for a bit, but if he put up the same stats in Cleveland during the same time period, this wouldn't be an issue.
Yankee fans think Maris should be in as well.



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49erMatt

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Reply #7 on: July 11, 2009, 09:37:51 pm
If Mattingly were playing today in that billion dollar softball field they just opened, he would have no problem getting in the hall. Yankees fans, cut your loses with that silly ballpark and burn it down. It's a joke and the laughing stock of MLB. It wouldn't be any bigger waste of money that all those overpaid free agents you've brought in over the last decade.


X-49er

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Reply #8 on: July 11, 2009, 09:56:35 pm
Quote from: 49erMatt;418718
If Mattingly were playing today in that billion dollar softball field they just opened, he would have no problem getting in the hall. Yankees fans, cut your loses with that silly ballpark and burn it down. It's a joke and the laughing stock of MLB. It wouldn't be any bigger waste of money that all those overpaid free agents you've brought in over the last decade.


Being a left-handed hitter in the old Yankee Stadium padded his home run numbers as well.  He might hit more in the new stadium, but the old stadium helped him out plenty.
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NJNiner12

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Reply #9 on: July 11, 2009, 10:05:32 pm
Quote from: Tintin;418716
After Dawson, Parker, Santo, Hodges and Murphy get in (2-3 of them don't belong), then I'll think about Mattingley.
He was good for a bit, but if he put up the same stats in Cleveland during the same time period, this wouldn't be an issue.
Yankee fans think Maris should be in as well.
 
 
 
Tintin

Dawson will get in even though I do not believe he should. The only person on that list who should get in is Santo. No chance for Parker and possibly Hodges way down the road. I definitly hope to see players like Blyleven and Raines get in first probably even McGwire and Palmeiro before Mattingly gets in.


NLP

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Reply #10 on: July 12, 2009, 01:03:24 am
to get the HOF with his numbers and seasons of peak performance, he'd have to have left a Sandy Koufax-impact on the game.  that didn't happen.  great player until he jacked his back up.
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Chisox17

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Reply #11 on: July 12, 2009, 07:57:53 am
It's the Hall of Fame, not the hall of really good.
 
He only had three seasons where he had 200+ hits, only hit over 30 homers THREE times (never hit over 35), and drove in 100+ runs only 5 times.  I know, I know, his back.  You can't make excuses though, you either have a HOF career, or you don't.  Koufax is one rare exception to the rule.
 
Let's let everyone who ever hit 30 home runs in a season into the hall while we're at it, jeez.  
 
I really like Mattingly, but there's no way he should be a HOFer.
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Normmm

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Reply #12 on: July 12, 2009, 12:19:58 pm
Per Murphy, is there another 2 time MVP not in the Hall?  That's not meant as being sarcastic, but a true curiosity.  Guys like Murphy are the ones being hurt by the steriod era.  The numbers are so hard to figure out now as far as who has Hall of Fame career numbers and who doesn't.

I think Normmm was probably right all along, we'll be really good next year.


NJNiner12

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Reply #13 on: July 12, 2009, 12:26:50 pm
Quote from: Normmm;418740
Per Murphy, is there another 2 time MVP not in the Hall? That's not meant as being sarcastic, but a true curiosity. Guys like Murphy are the ones being hurt by the steriod era. The numbers are so hard to figure out now as far as who has Hall of Fame career numbers and who doesn't.

I could be wrong but I think Maris was a 2 time mvp and hes definitly not a hall of famer.


Normmm

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Reply #14 on: July 12, 2009, 12:41:13 pm
Quote from: NJNiner12;418742
I could be wrong but I think Maris was a 2 time mvp and hes definitly not a hall of famer.

After a quick search, it appears you're correct.  In the modern era, say 1970 to present, also Frank Thomas and Juan Gonzalez have 2 and are not automatic HOFers in my opinion.

I think Normmm was probably right all along, we'll be really good next year.


JoeSixPack

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Reply #15 on: July 12, 2009, 12:44:54 pm
Baseball HOF.

Dale Murphy = yes

Don Mattingly = no

Mark McGwire = no

all the other names mentioned in this thread require more careful analysis.


NJNiner12

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Reply #16 on: July 12, 2009, 12:53:30 pm
Quote from: Normmm;418744
After a quick search, it appears you're correct. In the modern era, say 1970 to present, also Frank Thomas and Juan Gonzalez have 2 and are not automatic HOFers in my opinion.

I think Frank Thomas is a no brainer Hall of Famer. In his prime there was not a more feared hitter in the league than the Big Hurt, maybe Ken Griffey Jr. Juan Gonzalez has absolutly no shot at the hall of fame. If he makes it I am totally giving up on the Baseball Hall of Fame, since it is becoming more of a joke each year.


NJNiner12

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Reply #17 on: July 12, 2009, 12:56:36 pm
Quote from: JoeSixPack;418745
Baseball HOF.
 
Dale Murphy = yes
 
Don Mattingly = no
 
Mark McGwire = no
 
all the other names mentioned in this thread require more careful analysis.

During Murphy's prime he was definitly a hall of famer and quite possibly the most feared hitter of the 80s in the National League. The only problem was that his prime did not last too long. And when Murphy declined he declined terribly. I believe he is borderline at best.


JoeSixPack

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Reply #18 on: July 12, 2009, 07:32:54 pm
Quote from: NJNiner12;418747
During Murphy's prime he was definitly a hall of famer and quite possibly the most feared hitter of the 80s in the National League. The only problem was that his prime did not last too long. And when Murphy declined he declined terribly. I believe he is borderline at best.


pretty much agree.  But "the most feared hitter of the 80's in the National League" is noteworthy, in my opinion.

and just so there are no assumptions here, I despise the Braves.


Chisox17

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Reply #19 on: July 12, 2009, 10:00:07 pm
Quote from: Normmm;418744
Frank Thomas and Juan Gonzalez have 2 and are not automatic HOFers in my opinion.

I know I'm a little biased, but you have to be kidding me about Frank Thomas! For about a decade he was arguably the most dominant offensive player in the game. Look up his stats. The guy hit 500+ HRs and drove in over 1700 runs for crying out loud, all while batting over .300 for his career, wtf do you want??
 
Quote from: NJNiner12;418746
I think Frank Thomas is a no brainer Hall of Famer..

It amazes me that anyone could think otherwise. And he got all those numbers cleanly, he offered to take blood tests multiple times.
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mightymitchfan

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Reply #20 on: July 12, 2009, 10:28:37 pm
I love Frank Thomas as a player and think he put up his numbers cleanly but just because he offered to take blood tests it doesn't mean he wasn't using.  Sammy Sosa offered to be tested but quickly changed his mind when he was actually confronted with a test he quickly changed his mind.

Unless he went on his own and got tested and has held on to the results for proof unfortunately we will never know if he did steroids or not.


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Reply #21 on: July 12, 2009, 10:31:45 pm
Quote from: cdsniner;418784
I love Frank Thomas as a player and think he put up his numbers cleanly but just because he offered to take blood tests it doesn't mean he wasn't using. Sammy Sosa offered to be tested but quickly changed his mind when he was actually confronted with a test he quickly changed his mind.
 
Unless he went on his own and got tested and has held on to the results for proof unfortunately we will never know if he did steroids or not.

 
Believe what you want, but back in the late 90's, he and the entire team caused a big stink about wanting to get themselves and the whole league tested.  Needless to say, Donald Fehr didn't let this happen.
 
Also, Thomas was huge in college (he was on the Auburn football) team, and stayed the same size pretty much his whole career.  And he always looked naturally big, not roid big.
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mightymitchfan

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Reply #22 on: July 12, 2009, 11:10:03 pm
I agree with you 100% that he wasn't using.  And as a lifelong Braves and White Sox fan I am well aware of how big he was when he came into the league but with what has come out in the last few years it's hard to say who did  or didn't use steroids.  

Right or wrong Donald Fehr was doing his job in keeping testing for steroids out of baseball for as long as he could. But if a player wants to be tested all he has to do is give a sample to his personal physician to be sent out for testing.  What do you think Donald Fehr would have done if Frank Thomas would've gotten tested and publicized the results?  I guarantee you had he been punished for proving he was clean than the backlash to MLB would be far greater than anything we have seen to date.


N1NER

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Reply #23 on: July 13, 2009, 11:53:52 am
I am a huge Mattingly fan, have over 2,000 of his baseball cards.  To see people on here describe him as just "really good" pains me.  Before he started having back problems (around '90-'91), he was the BEST player in baseball.  PERIOD!  Not even close.  '84 batting champ,'85 AL MVP, still holds several MLB records.  Don't compare his stats to the roid users of today.  He hit for average and power in during his era.

His own peers (Kirby Puckett being the most out-spoken) have said there is no way he should not be in the HOF.  Puckett was a first ballot HOF, played during the same time period and essentially has the same stats from the plate.  What's the difference between Puckett getting in and Mattingly not.  (Note: I think Puckett deserves to be in Cooperstown.)

Even comparing him to Cal Ripken, what makes Ripken's #'s so much greater except for longevity?

Ripken - 21 seasons, .276 AVG, 23 HR, 33 2B, 172 hits, 89 runs, 61 BB, .340 OBP, .447 SLG, .788 OPS

Mattingly - 14 seasons, .307 AVG, 20 HR, 40 2B, 195 hits, 91 runs, 53 BB, .358 OBP, .471 SLG, .830 OPS


bleedsgreenandgold

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Reply #24 on: July 13, 2009, 12:09:39 pm
Quote from: N1NER;418871

Even comparing him to Cal Ripken, what makes Ripken's #'s so much greater except for longevity?

Ripken - 21 seasons, .276 AVG, 23 HR, 33 2B, 172 hits, 89 runs, 61 BB, .340 OBP, .447 SLG, .788 OPS

Mattingly - 14 seasons, .307 AVG, 20 HR, 40 2B, 195 hits, 91 runs, 53 BB, .358 OBP, .471 SLG, .830 OPS





You're comparing apples to oranges. Nobody should make the HOF based on comparsion to another player. If anything, at least find another 1B to compare him to.


 

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