Author Topic: Soccer/Futbol (Football) thread  (Read 88975 times)

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CharSFNiners

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on: January 30, 2013, 09:15:34 am
I figured we should probably have a thread to discuss Soccer/Futbol (I spell it this way so it isn't confused with American Football).  Most of our conversations are in the shoutbox and get lost b/c of people wanting to talk about guns, more realignment, or whatever.


This thread is for any soccer, whether it be E(B)PL, La Liga, MLS, Cup qualifying, friendlies, whatever is in the news, and just in general.


To start, I read these articles yesterday.  The one about finding the American Messi is pretty sweet and includes a link to a 12 y/o Californian who is in FC Barcelona's camp.  Kid is apparently really good.


America's Next Messi


US Soccer's Top 10 Under 21


Junior Flores


Pathways to the Pros





J Feet

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Reply #1 on: January 31, 2013, 01:23:21 pm
Brek Shea going to play for Stoke City. At 22 years old, he has tremendous potential for the USMNT over the next decade, good to see him moving to a tougher league.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21256177
 
Lots of US players in BPL now, has to help our international game, right?
 
In other news, Evan James got his second international cap for Canada on Tuesday.
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mightymitchfan

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Reply #2 on: January 31, 2013, 01:40:36 pm
Brek Shea going to play for Stoke City. At 22 years old, he has tremendous potential for the USMNT over the next decade, good to see him moving to a tougher league.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21256177
 
Lots of US players in BPL now, has to help our international game, right?
 
In other news, Evan James got his second international cap for Canada on Tuesday.

Who is James playing with professionally?  I went to the Montreal Impact roster page and he was no longer on there.


J Feet

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Reply #3 on: January 31, 2013, 01:43:54 pm

Who is James playing with professionally?  I went to the Montreal Impact roster page and he was no longer on there.

I heard he got cut, but haven't heard anything since.
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NLP

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Reply #4 on: January 31, 2013, 01:44:08 pm
USMNT according to cpip's poor trolling attempts.
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CharSFNiners

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Reply #5 on: January 31, 2013, 01:44:47 pm

Lots of US players in BPL now, has to help our international game, right?
 

[size=78%]Problem is they're not coming back over to play in these games, preferring to stay with their clubs.  Also, we may have players on the rosters, but they're not always getting playing time.[/size]


casstommy

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Reply #6 on: January 31, 2013, 02:26:35 pm
  Also, we may have players on the rosters, but they're not always getting playing time.


Thats a major problem.  I look at a guy like Agudelo who has tons of upside, but needs to get out of Chivas asap to develop so he can learn he cant dribble past the back line on his own.  But will it do him any good to move to europe and never see the pitch?  I dont think so.


CharSFNiners

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Reply #7 on: January 31, 2013, 04:38:04 pm
  Also, we may have players on the rosters, but they're not always getting playing time.


Thats a major problem.  I look at a guy like Agudelo who has tons of upside, but needs to get out of Chivas asap to develop so he can learn he cant dribble past the back line on his own.  But will it do him any good to move to europe and never see the pitch?  I dont think so.


Exactly, I don't know where he can go though to get that burn plus the tutelage... Mexico?  MLS's competition level isn't bad, it isn't great.  Most would put an good MLS squad on the level of a second or third tier EPL team.  How many field guys do we have in the EPL (I'm not counting keepers).  Donovan, Dempsey, etc.?  How many of these guys get legitimate burn.


Just looked it up:


http://www.soccertimes.com/americans/list.htm


I know some others play in the Italian league as well.

EDIT:  That list is a bit dated.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 04:40:24 pm by CharSFNiners »


casstommy

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Reply #8 on: January 31, 2013, 05:00:44 pm
Here is a current list...


http://yanks-abroad.com/content.php?mode=players


7 or 8 guys in the EPL.  3 are keepers though and they always get time.  Demps, Ream and Cameron get good run.  Holden does when he's healthy. 


J Feet

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Reply #9 on: January 31, 2013, 05:11:35 pm
Here is a current list...


http://yanks-abroad.com/content.php?mode=players


7 or 8 guys in the EPL.  3 are keepers though and they always get time.  Demps, Ream and Cameron get good run.  Holden does when he's healthy.

Guys playing in the Championship, Bundesliga and Serie A could all be considered to be playing in leagues better than the MLS, at least that's what minimal knowledge of European soccer leagues tells me.
 
Even if they aren't playing, they're still training with the best.
 
IMO, the optimal path for an American is to rise up in our (improved) youth ranks, maybe play a few years in MLS, get bought by a big name European club and play there for a decade, then come home to MLS to close out his career.
 
Wish Galaxy would've let Donovan stay at Everton, might have rejuvenated his love for the game.
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Noreaster

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Reply #10 on: January 31, 2013, 06:44:39 pm
Lots of US guys play in European leagues.  Bradley, Edu, Cherundolo, Jermaine Jones, Bocanegra all get regular call-ups to the MNT.  Granted, the Premiership gets the most press in the US, but that isn't necessarily the best league in Europe.


Unfortunately, MLS is probably about #10 on a list of the best leagues in the world.  It doesn't help that they don't pay much and play an off-kilter schedule.  The scheduling thing is unique simply because soccer can't compete with the NFL on weekends in the US.  Just can't.  I would love to see homegrown talent stay here, but the reality is they will get paid maybe 10%-25% of what they could make overseas.


ImfromClayton

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Reply #11 on: January 31, 2013, 08:08:30 pm
I had no idea anybody on this board kept up with international soccer.  I saw where David Beckham signed to play with PSG today.  Interesting move. He's giving his entire salary to a boys home in Paris. 
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ZombieLew

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Reply #12 on: January 31, 2013, 08:09:02 pm
Lots of US guys play in European leagues.  Bradley, Edu, Cherundolo, Jermaine Jones, Bocanegra all get regular call-ups to the MNT.  Granted, the Premiership gets the most press in the US, but that isn't necessarily the best league in Europe.


Unfortunately, MLS is probably about #10 on a list of the best leagues in the world.  It doesn't help that they don't pay much and play an off-kilter schedule.  The scheduling thing is unique simply because soccer can't compete with the NFL on weekends in the US.  Just can't.  I would love to see homegrown talent stay here, but the reality is they will get paid maybe 10%-25% of what they could make overseas.

I think part of it as well was for player development... players can go on loan to European clubs in the MLS off season, allowing them to play year-round.

I will say, though... MLS has to, and I mean absolutely HAS to get rid of any semblance of a salary cap. I understand that they want to keep it competitive, but the only way that MLS will ever compete on a global scale is to cut the deepest pockets loose and let them bring in the talent to do so.
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ImfromClayton

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Reply #13 on: January 31, 2013, 08:42:35 pm
Lots of US guys play in European leagues.  Bradley, Edu, Cherundolo, Jermaine Jones, Bocanegra all get regular call-ups to the MNT.  Granted, the Premiership gets the most press in the US, but that isn't necessarily the best league in Europe.


Unfortunately, MLS is probably about #10 on a list of the best leagues in the world.  It doesn't help that they don't pay much and play an off-kilter schedule.  The scheduling thing is unique simply because soccer can't compete with the NFL on weekends in the US.  Just can't.  I would love to see homegrown talent stay here, but the reality is they will get paid maybe 10%-25% of what they could make overseas.

I think part of it as well was for player development... players can go on loan to European clubs in the MLS off season, allowing them to play year-round.

I will say, though... MLS has to, and I mean absolutely HAS to get rid of any semblance of a salary cap. I understand that they want to keep it competitive, but the only way that MLS will ever compete on a global scale is to cut the deepest pockets loose and let them bring in the talent to do so.

this ^^

The New York Cosmos were the most popular and best team in the world in the 70's.  American fans won't watch a product that is seen as "minor leagues"
#bus1


J Feet

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Reply #14 on: January 31, 2013, 08:51:59 pm
Lots of US guys play in European leagues.  Bradley, Edu, Cherundolo, Jermaine Jones, Bocanegra all get regular call-ups to the MNT.  Granted, the Premiership gets the most press in the US, but that isn't necessarily the best league in Europe.


Unfortunately, MLS is probably about #10 on a list of the best leagues in the world.  It doesn't help that they don't pay much and play an off-kilter schedule.  The scheduling thing is unique simply because soccer can't compete with the NFL on weekends in the US.  Just can't.  I would love to see homegrown talent stay here, but the reality is they will get paid maybe 10%-25% of what they could make overseas.

I think part of it as well was for player development... players can go on loan to European clubs in the MLS off season, allowing them to play year-round.

I will say, though... MLS has to, and I mean absolutely HAS to get rid of any semblance of a salary cap. I understand that they want to keep it competitive, but the only way that MLS will ever compete on a global scale is to cut the deepest pockets loose and let them bring in the talent to do so.


May allow some teams to bring in top talent, but that move would kill the smaller market teams that can't afford it. Fans hate following losing teams, especially in this country. By keeping it equally competitive for the time being, they can grow the league (and the fanbase) at a steady rate for a better chance at future success. It's getting better every year, and I think we're not far removed from big money starting to be spent outside of LA and New York.


Going to take time.


Also, GO NORWICH!
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CharSFNiners

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Reply #15 on: February 01, 2013, 05:02:05 pm
I know plenty of players play elsewhere in equally competitive leagues, I just used EPL as the benchmark.  I will agree the Bundesligia, La Liga, and Serie A leagues are all comparable.


SteauA

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Reply #16 on: February 02, 2013, 01:49:13 pm
Lots of US guys play in European leagues.  Bradley, Edu, Cherundolo, Jermaine Jones, Bocanegra all get regular call-ups to the MNT.  Granted, the Premiership gets the most press in the US, but that isn't necessarily the best league in Europe.


Unfortunately, MLS is probably about #10 on a list of the best leagues in the world.  It doesn't help that they don't pay much and play an off-kilter schedule.  The scheduling thing is unique simply because soccer can't compete with the NFL on weekends in the US.  Just can't.  I would love to see homegrown talent stay here, but the reality is they will get paid maybe 10%-25% of what they could make overseas.

I think part of it as well was for player development... players can go on loan to European clubs in the MLS off season, allowing them to play year-round.

I will say, though... MLS has to, and I mean absolutely HAS to get rid of any semblance of a salary cap. I understand that they want to keep it competitive, but the only way that MLS will ever compete on a global scale is to cut the deepest pockets loose and let them bring in the talent to do so.

this ^^

The New York Cosmos were the most popular and best team in the world in the 70's.  American fans won't watch a product that is seen as "minor leagues"


lol


---


MLS instituted a salary cap to avoid failure like the NASL did.  MLS is doing fine.  They have grown by leaps and bounds just in the time I've been living in this country (2000+).  I remember thinking how much of a joke the broadcasts were when I moved here and caught them on TV.  Now I find them thoroughly entertaining with a decent quality of play and great stadiums and fan bases. 
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 01:51:40 pm by SteauA »


SteauA

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Reply #17 on: February 02, 2013, 01:53:20 pm
I know plenty of players play elsewhere in equally competitive leagues, I just used EPL as the benchmark.  I will agree the Bundesligia, La Liga, and Serie A leagues are all comparable.


You can add Ligue 1 to that list as well.  Some other less profile leagues around Europe as well.


UEFA has a lot of problems but the coefficient system they use to decide the quality of the domestic leagues and thus decide who deserves more/less European competition spots is second to none.  The NCAA could learn A LOT from such a system.


CharSFNiners

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Reply #18 on: February 04, 2013, 03:11:26 pm
I know plenty of players play elsewhere in equally competitive leagues, I just used EPL as the benchmark.  I will agree the Bundesligia, La Liga, and Serie A leagues are all comparable.


You can add Ligue 1 to that list as well.  Some other less profile leagues around Europe as well.


UEFA has a lot of problems but the coefficient system they use to decide the quality of the domestic leagues and thus decide who deserves more/less European competition spots is second to none.  The NCAA could learn A LOT from such a system.


I just don't like France.


cltniners

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Reply #19 on: February 04, 2013, 09:33:57 pm
I know plenty of players play elsewhere in equally competitive leagues, I just used EPL as the benchmark.  I will agree the Bundesligia, La Liga, and Serie A leagues are all comparable.


You can add Ligue 1 to that list as well.  Some other less profile leagues around Europe as well.


UEFA has a lot of problems but the coefficient system they use to decide the quality of the domestic leagues and thus decide who deserves more/less European competition spots is second to none.  The NCAA could learn A LOT from such a system.


I just don't like France.


clt doesn't like France.


casstommy

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Reply #20 on: February 06, 2013, 03:14:31 pm
So WC qualifying kicks off today against Honduras.  Its a huge game against a feisty squad in one of the most dangerous cities in the world.  Honduras as already declared today a national holiday.  There really isnt a way to express how crazy the atmosphere will be tonight.


We've had their number over several years but this isnt the same old Honduras team.  They no longer play that bunker style soccer that you find in CONCACAF.  They have a pair of pretty good attacking forwards who could give our revamped front line some problems.  I'm saying we pull it out 2-0 but my brain is telling me its gonna be a 1-1 draw.


Line ups will be Howard, Chandler, Gonzo, Cameron, Johnson, Williams, Jones, Bradley, E Johnson (ugh), Demps and Altidore.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 03:21:13 pm by casstommy »


9erken

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Reply #21 on: February 06, 2013, 03:41:38 pm
I like our defense more than our offense now. Not sure if this team will have the spark it needs to dominate without Donovan, though Dempsey being in top form is helpful. I agree that E Johnson essentially in place of Donovan is a problem.

I think the US loses this one, but finds a way to squeak out of the Hexagonal. There's been a lot of lackluster performances lately in qualifying, and the other 5 this time are better than they have been in the past I think, with Jamaica and Panama not as much gimmes as past bottom teams, and Mexico looking like a world power of late.


CharSFNiners

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Reply #22 on: February 06, 2013, 06:48:32 pm
Lost 2-1 to Honduras. Doesn't surprise me.


casstommy

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Reply #23 on: February 06, 2013, 07:07:22 pm
f*** that game.  Team looked gassed from start to finish.  The back line showed its youth and chandler looked lost at times.  A world class goal by deuce followed by the most lethargic goal celebration I've ever seen.


SteauA

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Reply #24 on: February 07, 2013, 09:22:39 am
I was expecting a draw and hoping for a win.  That performance was atrocious.  Not sure what Kinsmann is telling those guys but in official matches they haven't played well in about a year.  He's now 11W-7L-5D as US manager.  That's just not good enough. 

This team should still easily qualify in one of those top 3 spots but Costa Rica at home next is a must win because then you have Mexico at Azteca in game 3.  You don't want to potentially be sitting on 1 point through 3 matches.


 

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