Author Topic: Al Jefferson to the Bobcats  (Read 36529 times)

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s9er

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Reply #25 on: July 05, 2013, 07:07:08 pm
We can't play to the draft.. this isn't the NFL.


I'm glad to see the cats went and got a proven guy that isn't ancient (28 y/o). We needed someone down low and I'm glad to see we got him and his name wasn't Dwight Howard.


In other news, we're talking about the Bobnets in terms of players (not just the name of the franchise). Something must have been done right!
  Do the Bobcats have 3 first round picks next year? General opinion is that the draft will be loaded, right?
possibly, but it is not guaranteed. I think we do have a minimum of two though.

Nope. If Charlotte's pick falls outside the top 5 it belongs to Chicago, they get Detroits pick if its outside the top 8, and they get Portlands pick if its outside the top 12. So there's a huge chance they have no 1st round picks next year.
Wow. That'd be discouraging if I cared.


You cared enough to comment it seems.. ;D
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 07:19:27 pm by s9er »


4ever niner

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Reply #26 on: July 05, 2013, 08:37:37 pm
^^^^^


Idle curiosity. Not caring.   :)





49ersRock

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Reply #27 on: July 05, 2013, 11:24:32 pm
We can't play to the draft.. this isn't the NFL.


I'm glad to see the cats went and got a proven guy that isn't ancient (28 y/o). We needed someone down low and I'm glad to see we got him and his name wasn't Dwight Howard.


In other news, we're talking about the Bobnets in terms of players (not just the name of the franchise). Something must have been done right!
  Do the Bobcats have 3 first round picks next year? General opinion is that the draft will be loaded, right?
possibly, but it is not guaranteed. I think we do have a minimum of two though.

Nope. If Charlotte's pick falls outside the top 5 it belongs to Chicago, they get Detroits pick if its outside the top 8, and they get Portlands pick if its outside the top 12. So there's a huge chance they have no 1st round picks next year.

 
I'm pretty sure Charlotte's pick has to fall outside the top ten in 2014 to lose that pick tp Chicago.


2012ALUMNI49er

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Reply #28 on: July 06, 2013, 02:52:45 am
I've read top 5 protected and top 10 protected. Idk what to believe. Ha
Why not Charlotte?


Basden05

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Reply #29 on: July 06, 2013, 10:24:08 am
We can't play to the draft.. this isn't the NFL.


I'm glad to see the cats went and got a proven guy that isn't ancient (28 y/o). We needed someone down low and I'm glad to see we got him and his name wasn't Dwight Howard.


In other news, we're talking about the Bobnets in terms of players (not just the name of the franchise). Something must have been done right!
  Do the Bobcats have 3 first round picks next year? General opinion is that the draft will be loaded, right?
possibly, but it is not guaranteed. I think we do have a minimum of two though.

Nope. If Charlotte's pick falls outside the top 5 it belongs to Chicago, they get Detroits pick if its outside the top 8, and they get Portlands pick if its outside the top 12. So there's a huge chance they have no 1st round picks next year.

 
I'm pretty sure Charlotte's pick has to fall outside the top ten in 2014 to lose that pick tp Chicago.


Your right, it's top 10 protected
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Basden05

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Reply #30 on: July 06, 2013, 10:31:07 am
I for one love the draft, but who's to say we don't get screwed again and pick 5th or 6th next year? There are going to be a lot of really bad teams (Philly, Bucks, Suns, Celtics, Magic, Sacramento) going for that top pick.


I'm pretty ok with the singing, because next years free agent crop isn't great in terms of players that would actually come here. U have marquee guys and then a bunch of restricted players.


This could be a playoff team in a couple of years
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Threemire09

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Reply #31 on: July 06, 2013, 12:18:55 pm
Bobcats receive the Blazers' 2014 first-round pick (top 12 protected in the 2014, and 2015, and unprotected in 2016) (Gerald Wallace trade 02-24-11)

Bobcats receive the Pistons' 2014 first-round pick (top 8 protected in 2014, top 1 in 2015, and unprotected in 2016) (Gerald Wallace trade 02-24-11)

Bulls receive the Bobcats' 2014 first-round pick (top 10 protected in 2014, top 8 protected in 2015, unprotected in 2016) (Tyrus Thomas trade 02-18-10)


So it would be ideal for the Bobcats to have a decent season this year and give a 11-20 pick to the Bulls.  Then, the Pistons stink this year and get a top pick in 15' or 16'. Also, the Blazers have two poor seasons and in 2015/2016 the Bobcats would have 2 or three high first rounders.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 12:24:36 pm by Threemire09 »
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lkn9er

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Reply #32 on: July 06, 2013, 05:10:48 pm
Why play to the draft? Everyone knows it's rigged. It's going to go to another big market team. The Boston Celtics will have the #1 pick.


NinerWupAss

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Reply #33 on: July 06, 2013, 05:25:59 pm
Why play to the draft? Everyone knows it's rigged. It's going to go to another big market team. The Boston Celtics will have the #1 pick.


If that is indeed the case then half the league might as well disband.  It would mean that small markets have essentially ZERO chance at making a run at a title.  The two small markets everyone wants to uphold as success are San Antonio (who got lucky with the draft in the previous "era" with Robinson and Durant) and OKC (Durant).  So if we are saying Charlotte can't or wont be allowed to win the lottery and the soft cap allows deep pocket owners and markets an advantage and players these days would rather play with their friends than win on their own then why would I ever become a Charlotte NBA fan again and why would I be a fan of a system that basically eliminates half the league from being contenders? 


I know some of you all say the best teams are great and fun to watch.  Well fine, just let all the great teams play and have a league of 12 large markets.  Until the league fixes this crap and gives each team a legit and real shot at a title I don't see why I should care.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 05:43:55 pm by NinerWupAss »
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Reply #34 on: July 07, 2013, 09:30:59 am
They didn't get lucky with Robinson, they got lucky with Duncan though for sure.


Also, there are plenty of shitty teams in the NFL also.


Ruckus42

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Reply #35 on: July 07, 2013, 10:23:51 am
Yep half the league should disband with the current setup. The NFL is great because every team has a shot. At least baseball develops talent in smaller markets. The luxury tax in bball is a joke.
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Ruckus42

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Reply #36 on: July 07, 2013, 10:26:08 am
They didn't get lucky with Robinson, they got lucky with Duncan though for sure.


Also, there are plenty of shitty teams in the NFL also.
Yes there are shitty teams in the nfl, however, it often varies from year to year. Seattle was shitty not long ago. The Rams were shitty but are on the rise. The Bengals were shitty for a long time then made the playoffs. Every team has a chance. Even Jacksonville.
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NinerWupAss

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Reply #37 on: July 07, 2013, 10:34:13 am
They didn't get lucky with Robinson, they got lucky with Duncan though for sure.


Also, there are plenty of shitty teams in the NFL also.


Lucky as in you have to have some luck to win the draft lottery and then win it when there is a clear cut franchise player.  By that count the Spurs got lucky twice.  The Duncan one was uber luck since the only reason they sucked so bad was Robinson was out for nearly the entire season (they did have the third worst record in the league that year).


Yes there are plenty of shitty NFL teams, but their system really sets it up to allow franchises to turn things around through the salary cap and the ability to cut players.  And not just turn it around to make the playoffs, but turn things around to make it to the Superbowl.  The NBA system is set up to create power teams.  Works great if you are a fan of one of them, but if you are in a small market, then why should you be a fan of your team when you have virtually no shot at a title.  I don't care if the nets have a stacked team or the heat are fun to watch.  What I care about is if our team, the local team, has a legit shot and it certainly appears they don't. 


My response here was in reaction to someone saying the draft is rigged and the NBA will pick the winner of the draft - so if the draft is rigged (hasn't gone right for us yet), the refs give calls to star players at a rate I haven't seen since I started watching the NBA in 1983 (we have no star players), the soft salary cap (allows deep pockets like nets and mavs to go over the cap and horde talent), players want to play with their friends (no one wants to come to charlotte) and finally poor decisions on talent weigh down teams for years and years because of the contract structure (Tyrus Thomas should have been able to be cut ala NFL rules). 


So based on that why should I care about the Horcats?  I want to, I really, really do.  I grew up LOVING the NBA.  I was at the hornets first game in 88, I was there when we beat the bulls in 88, i was there when we beat the celtics and was later a season ticket holder.  I watched the NBA non stop for years.  The problems aren't new - they are just worse than they ever have been.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 10:39:55 am by NinerWupAss »
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Reply #38 on: July 07, 2013, 11:07:22 am
Yep half the league should disband with the current setup. The NFL is great because every team has a shot. At least baseball develops talent in smaller markets. The luxury tax in bball is a joke.


Tell that to the Kansas City Chiefs.  Tell that to the Detroit Lions.  How about the titans?  Or does one super bowl appearance 12 years ago equal a shot?  Jaguars? 






hootie

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Reply #39 on: July 07, 2013, 11:09:33 am
Yep half the league should disband with the current setup. The NFL is great because every team has a shot. At least baseball develops talent in smaller markets. The luxury tax in bball is a joke.


Tell that to the Kansas City Chiefs.  Tell that to the Detroit Lions.  How about the titans?  Or does one super bowl appearance 12 years ago equal a shot?  Jaguars?
Poor management is to blame not the setup.  I'm a Raiders fan and it's not the leagues fault we have sucked.  If the league could stack things, the Cowboys would be in the SB every year and they haven't won a playoff game in ages.
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Reply #40 on: July 07, 2013, 11:31:09 am
They didn't get lucky with Robinson, they got lucky with Duncan though for sure.


Also, there are plenty of shitty teams in the NFL also.


Lucky as in you have to have some luck to win the draft lottery and then win it when there is a clear cut franchise player.  By that count the Spurs got lucky twice.  The Duncan one was uber luck since the only reason they sucked so bad was Robinson was out for nearly the entire season (they did have the third worst record in the league that year).


Yes there are plenty of shitty NFL teams, but their system really sets it up to allow franchises to turn things around through the salary cap and the ability to cut players.  And not just turn it around to make the playoffs, but turn things around to make it to the Superbowl.  The NBA system is set up to create power teams.  Works great if you are a fan of one of them, but if you are in a small market, then why should you be a fan of your team when you have virtually no shot at a title.  I don't care if the nets have a stacked team or the heat are fun to watch.  What I care about is if our team, the local team, has a legit shot and it certainly appears they don't. 


My response here was in reaction to someone saying the draft is rigged and the NBA will pick the winner of the draft - so if the draft is rigged (hasn't gone right for us yet), the refs give calls to star players at a rate I haven't seen since I started watching the NBA in 1983 (we have no star players), the soft salary cap (allows deep pockets like nets and mavs to go over the cap and horde talent), players want to play with their friends (no one wants to come to charlotte) and finally poor decisions on talent weigh down teams for years and years because of the contract structure (Tyrus Thomas should have been able to be cut ala NFL rules). 


So based on that why should I care about the Horcats?  I want to, I really, really do.  I grew up LOVING the NBA.  I was at the hornets first game in 88, I was there when we beat the bulls in 88, i was there when we beat the celtics and was later a season ticket holder.  I watched the NBA non stop for years.  The problems aren't new - they are just worse than they ever have been.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     


Powerbait

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Reply #41 on: July 07, 2013, 11:40:54 am
Yep half the league should disband with the current setup. The NFL is great because every team has a shot. At least baseball develops talent in smaller markets. The luxury tax in bball is a joke.


Tell that to the Kansas City Chiefs.  Tell that to the Detroit Lions.  How about the titans?  Or does one super bowl appearance 12 years ago equal a shot?  Jaguars?
Poor management is to blame not the setup.  I'm a Raiders fan and it's not the leagues fault we have sucked.  If the league could stack things, the Cowboys would be in the SB every year and they haven't won a playoff game in ages.


NFL is historically dominated by a few teams over every era.  There are plenty of long term cellar dwellers in the NFL and while they may get out eventually, the same can be said for the NBA.  If anything, it is easier to get out in the NBA than it is the NFL.


NinerWupAss

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Reply #42 on: July 07, 2013, 01:43:42 pm
Yep half the league should disband with the current setup. The NFL is great because every team has a shot. At least baseball develops talent in smaller markets. The luxury tax in bball is a joke.


Tell that to the Kansas City Chiefs.  Tell that to the Detroit Lions.  How about the titans?  Or does one super bowl appearance 12 years ago equal a shot?  Jaguars?
Poor management is to blame not the setup.  I'm a Raiders fan and it's not the leagues fault we have sucked.  If the league could stack things, the Cowboys would be in the SB every year and they haven't won a playoff game in ages.


NFL is historically dominated by a few teams over every era.  There are plenty of long term cellar dwellers in the NFL and while they may get out eventually, the same can be said for the NBA.  If anything, it is easier to get out in the NBA than it is the NFL.


While one or two teams in the NFL historically do dominate - look at SB participation.  Half the league (16) has made the SB since 2000 with 10 different franchises winning, in the NBA only 12 different teams have made it with only 7 different teams winning.   


My main issue is the field isn't level in the NBA - if you have a large market and a deep pocket owner the chances of getting out of the cellar is much easier.  Players wanting to play in a big market with their friends and the ability to go over the cap creates a very difficult dynamic for some teams to overcome unless they get lucky in the draft.  In the NFL all the teams play by the same rules - which means management of the cap and drafting is more important than market and friends.  In the NBA poor management is compounded by the difficulty to overcome a management mistake. 


The only sense that getting out of the cellar is easier in the NBA is that one player can make the difference.  That goes back to the being lucky thing or that the NBA wants you to get better.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 01:46:35 pm by NinerWupAss »
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Reply #43 on: July 07, 2013, 05:10:06 pm
Those aren't significantly different numbers.  Especially since the Patriots (3), Giants (2), Ravens (2) and Steelers (2) won 9 of those 13 Super Bowls.  And the Patriots were in 5 of them, the Giants 3 of them. 


NinerWupAss

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Reply #44 on: July 07, 2013, 05:48:31 pm
Those aren't significantly different numbers.  Especially since the Patriots (3), Giants (2), Ravens (2) and Steelers (2) won 9 of those 13 Super Bowls.  And the Patriots were in 5 of them, the Giants 3 of them.


I think 4 more teams making the finals, when you only have 30 teams is statistically relevant.  I would also say that the Steelers and the Patriots  have managed their rosters to stay at the peak, the others though went through being bad and back to good again.  The Ravens finished last in their division as recently as 2007 and the Giants finished last in 2003.  Which goes to prove that in the NFL you can go from good to bad back to good again because the system in place creates an environment that supports that.  The NBA has a system that makes it much more difficult to turnaround a franchise unless you get lucky in the draft or are a large market with a deep pocket owner.  It isn't impossible, just difficult to do given how the CBA is structured and player behavior.  In the NFL your management literally has to suck out loud (see Matt Millen in Detroit or Al Davis in Oakland) to not become competitive every few years.  The NBA seems happy with their system - I just fail to understand why I should care about the local team when the system is so tilted against them ever succeeding.  I would even say they even given the former Hornets luck with LJ and Alonzo they ran into the same problems.  Alonzo's deal came up and he wanted the big market.
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Charlotte2002

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Reply #45 on: July 07, 2013, 05:59:41 pm
The NFL system allows bad management to erase mistakes since contracts are not guaranteed. It's such a QB driven league, arguably more so than the NBA is star driven.


Miami is the 16th largest TV market, but The Beat was able to be make the team a desirable place For free agents because of he xhance to win.
New York is the largest TV market and the Knicks were terrible for over a decade.
The Clippers had been notoriously terrible and they play in the 2nd largest market.
The Bulls had a decade of mediocrity after Jordan and they are in the 3rd largest market.
San Antonio has been elite for 15 years and they play in the 37th largest market.


The bottom line is good management is necessary to win in the NBA. The Lakers are about to be an example of what poor management can do to a large market, because their management has taken a step back after the death of Jerry Buss.
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NinerWupAss

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Reply #46 on: July 07, 2013, 06:13:21 pm
The NFL system allows bad management to erase mistakes since contracts are not guaranteed.


Agree 100% - but it isn't just bad management.  It allows any team to make a mistake and not get stuck for years.  Being in a large market doesn't mean you WILL succeed - just that it makes it easier because ownership in large markets typically can spend more money and with a soft cap that impacts the rest of the league's ability to compete.  In the end to succeed in any league the better your owner and management the better your chances.  Some systems are set up to be more equal than others though with the NFL probably the closest to a level field and MLB being the least level.
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CharSFNiners

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Reply #47 on: July 08, 2013, 09:25:15 am
I just don't think it's a good signing.


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Reply #48 on: July 08, 2013, 09:26:27 am
I would have rather signed JJ Hickson at 1/3 the price.


casstommy

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Reply #49 on: July 08, 2013, 10:06:54 am
I like the signing personally and dont really understand why people are upset about it.


You get good big man to address your most pressing needs at a price that is in the ballpark for a guy of his talent.  His signing isnt going to place you out of the lottery, and we still have 2 additional potential lottery picks as well.


Doing nothing in the hopes of getting Wiggins is stupid.  Especially considering the amount of teams that will be attempting to do the same thing this season.  Its a proactive move by the bobcats and i like it.


 

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