Author Topic: Judy Rose, heart of the problem?  (Read 6753 times)

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amnesiac

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Reply #50 on: April 14, 2007, 02:54:46 pm
I agree there has been some real progress, but probably not being able to see the rise of college football in the late 90's is really what we are suffering from.  Just like you study in business school on strategy and seeing drastic market changes.

For football I think the benchmark at Charlotte was the ACC during that time and the state of NC, and that was a mistake, ACC football was struggling,  but Southern Football (SEC etc....), Urban City college football and CUSA football were thriving and under going huge growth.    The ACC was able to catch up fast and react (it helped that Ga Tech, Clemson understood it and forced some change)  and expand to bring in football schools and try to capture some of that urban and southern football growth.

Again, we missed it and did not see it, even though we are in a major urban area in the South, we should of added football, we had the wrong benchmark.  This happens to companies and industries all the time.


fotee9er

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Reply #51 on: April 14, 2007, 05:21:58 pm
Metro, I agree on some points about your argument and I think baseball did have awful facilities that rivaled NAIA status, but you do have a sweet one now, but I know it's a little late coming. However, I do think we have very good mid-major facilities that border major. Also, we can't compare our facilities with a major program that has football, that's like comparing apples and oranges.
But just compare our facilities to other mid-major programs in our own state like UNCW, UNCG, Davidson, etc. I wouldn't compare App St because they have football, but the only thing I know is better is the weight room.
I also think the main reason USF got to the Big East was because they are in the state of Florida where football is king, and where the Big East wanted to tap into. I think it is for NO OTHER reason.

Provider, I agree with most of the things you have said, but let's be honest John Tart would not say anything bad about anyone, so i don't know how valid your point about him not saying anything bad about Judy is ;)


TheProvider

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Reply #52 on: April 14, 2007, 06:05:58 pm
Quote from: fotee9er;232651
Metro, I agree on some points about your argument and I think baseball did have awful facilities that rivaled NAIA status, but you do have a sweet one now, but I know it's a little late coming. However, I do think we have very good mid-major facilities that border major. Also, we can't compare our facilities with a major program that has football, that's like comparing apples and oranges.
But just compare our facilities to other mid-major programs in our own state like UNCW, UNCG, Davidson, etc. I wouldn't compare App St because they have football, but the only thing I know is better is the weight room.
I also think the main reason USF got to the Big East was because they are in the state of Florida where football is king, and where the Big East wanted to tap into. I think it is for NO OTHER reason.

Provider, I agree with most of the things you have said, but let's be honest John Tart would not say anything bad about anyone, so i don't know how valid your point about him not saying anything bad about Judy is ;)


Good enough point on Tart.  I know Metro and I have gone back and forth some here, but here is the way I see it.  Metro is an opinion shaper on this board.  90% of the people here have not spent any considerable time around Judy.  Metro hasn't in many years, and based on the feeling that she "didn't come to baseball games" during his tenure, I have no idea how much he was around her then.  Most of the people he tosses out as former employees that have a negative impression of her management style haven't been there in 7-8+ years either.  And who is to say they were right or wrong on her.  Like bees to honey, people who don't know her, think she is some type of incompetent AD because people on here, who really don't know her either, bash her.  Those 15 "lost" years might have been spent cultivating people like Ike Belk, Mariam Hayes, Dale Halton, Gene Johnson, Tom Phillips, etc into giving sizeable gifts for our now, considerable facilities.  Once again, Metro was one of the best players to ever don the uniform.  His number is retired, and that gives him a forum to speak -- from his opinion.  For those that will shape their opinions from his opinion, that is your right, but I would encourage you to actually ask the movers and shakers in Charlotte their opinion of Judy.  I think you will be surprised.


metro

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Reply #53 on: April 14, 2007, 06:50:55 pm
Quote from: TheProvider;232660
but I would encourage you to actually ask the movers and shakers in Charlotte their opinion of Judy.  I think you will be surprised.


are they alumni?
are you an alum?  
and..... if those movers and shakers really cared as much as you say, the corporate wealth of Charlotte would have cradled us by now, and thats clearly not happening.

you say you know me, but I've got no freakin clue who you are (well I can narrow it down to maybe 3).  My point is I want to see alumni steer this program.  This program has been steered by non alum for too long.  Albeit it was needed in the 70-80's because there were no alum old enough then.  But I see a power struggle now between those holding on to the past, and those who are old enough, rich enough, and wise enough to have imput to this athletic program.  No offense to Mullins, Halton, Hayes, Belk, or Philips- they are all outstanding people and we NEED them, but are they Niners?  It scares the hell out of me that there are hardly any alumni from the chancelor, AD, asst ADs , large donors, etc.  

As I've said, I think Judy was servicable (not horrible) for a majority of her tenure, but its time for a new outlook.  I still believe Judy is afraid to hire young aggressive personnel from BCS type schools to have high level jobs because she does not want to hear how bigger schools do it.  She wants subservient types surronding her.


TheProvider

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Reply #54 on: April 14, 2007, 11:45:41 pm
Quote from: metro;232667
are they alumni?
are you an alum?  
and..... if those movers and shakers really cared as much as you say, the corporate wealth of Charlotte would have cradled us by now, and thats clearly not happening.

you say you know me, but I've got no freakin clue who you are (well I can narrow it down to maybe 3).  My point is I want to see alumni steer this program.  This program has been steered by non alum for too long.  Albeit it was needed in the 70-80's because there were no alum old enough then.  But I see a power struggle now between those holding on to the past, and those who are old enough, rich enough, and wise enough to have imput to this athletic program.  No offense to Mullins, Halton, Hayes, Belk, or Philips- they are all outstanding people and we NEED them, but are they Niners?  It scares the hell out of me that there are hardly any alumni from the chancelor, AD, asst ADs , large donors, etc.  

As I've said, I think Judy was servicable (not horrible) for a majority of her tenure, but its time for a new outlook.  I still believe Judy is afraid to hire young aggressive personnel from BCS type schools to have high level jobs because she does not want to hear how bigger schools do it.  She wants subservient types surronding her.


My comment "I know you" was in general as in "I know what your slant is".  To my knowledge I have never met you, but I do know who you are as you have revealed it in any number of ways during baseball discussions.  I consider all of the above Niners, because they bought in to us.  Is Coach K a Blue Devil?  Didn't go to school there.  Don't you consider Danny Devos a Niner?  I do.  Charlotte will embrace us when we give them a reason to.  When we win in men's basketball, people show up.  When we don't, we are an afterthought.  And I don't understand what you really want.  You want alumni to steer the program, but to hire BCS types to high level jobs.  Aren't those mutually exclusive?  I think there are two actual alums on the admin staff, so its not as if they are non existent.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2007, 08:26:13 am by TheProvider »


49erWhit

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Reply #55 on: April 15, 2007, 08:11:51 am
Quote from: TheProvider;232724
I might be wrong, but where did I say I know you?  To my knowledge I have never met you, but I do know who you are as you have revealed it in any number of ways during baseball discussions.  I consider all of the above Niners, because they bought in to us.  Is Coach K a Blue Devil?  Didn't go to school there.  Don't you consider Danny Devos a Niner?  I do.  Charlotte will embrace us when we give them a reason to.  When we win in men's basketball, people show up.  When we don't, we are an afterthought.  And I don't understand what you really want.  You want alumni to steer the program, but to hire BCS types to high level jobs.  Aren't those mutually exclusive?  I think there are two actual alums on the admin staff, so its not as if they are non existent.



I think Metro is trying to say that the Atheletic Department needs a facelift.  Most of the people at key jobs have been around for sometime and have become comfortable in their ways.  I agree, we need some very intense and aggressive talent in the department to bring a new perspective to how we want this program to look over the next 2, 5, 10 years.


Over40NINER

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Reply #56 on: April 15, 2007, 08:53:06 am
Quote from: TheShowDawg;232600

most of these people will be coming from somewhere else and could give a "rats *ss" about Chapel Hill or NC State.

True.... Until they start reading the local newspaper.

...
This post was sponsored by Over40NINER......... the NNN 2009 POY.


Niner89

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Reply #57 on: April 15, 2007, 09:57:30 am
Quote from: Over40NINER;232786
True.... Until they start reading the local newspaper.

...


It may freak the newcomers out since all of the "local" school mentioned are over an hour away from CHARLOTTE. They may unsubscribe with the"paper" and start drinking bottled water.:shades:
I told him to call 911 . . . because the house is . . . on FIRE.


metro

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Reply #58 on: January 19, 2018, 12:22:37 am
There is a lot of talk here about how much everyone in the Athletic Department dislikes Judy Rose. I am having trouble reconciling that with the fact that we typically keep coaches for a long time and her staff is mostly long-time employees. Maybe you have inside knowledge or were scholarship athletes here and have connections that I do not. All I can do is look at what is visible and wonder.

I know that most of our coaches enjoy better facilities today than they did a decade ago. Most of these coaches have more scholarships to offer today than they did a decade ago. Many of them are having good success with their programs.

Our womenís basketball coach is leaving, but I do not think it is because she has problems with Judy Rose. She might tell you that Judy promoting her to head coach two years ago is what positioned her to get the top job at her alma mater, an SEC school and arguably the best school in college sports right now. She might also mention that her predecessor, Katie Meier, was able to go to an ACC school, Miami, on the strength of what she did here.

Our menís program may be facing big changes, and I will be sad to see Coach Lutz go if he does leave, but it would be hard to say that our program has been anything but successful over his nine years. Sure, we have faltered lately, and maybe that calls for a change, but what exactly do you think is the ADís fault here? The tone of this board is to get rid of the coach, and it seems that his contract has not been renewed based on the teamís performance. Is that not what you are calling for? Coach Lutz may not be happy with his situation here right now, but I bet he understands why he is in it. Does this not mean that you agree with Judy Rose?

I have seen comments about Melvin Watkins. True, Melvin did not get immediate consideration for the Head Coach position after Jeff Mullins and that had to sting. While he did a good job in his two years here as Head Coach, his six years at Texas A&M and their subsequent success make me wonder if our AD wasnít onto something. I do know when Coach Wat lost his job at A&M he called Judy Rose to see if she could keep an eye out for him. Perhaps they made up.

When Bobby Kummer lost his job at A&M he came back here, and he certainly knew Judy Rose. When Rob Moxley found that he did not like it at Maryland he came back here, and again, he knew Judy Rose.

We are in the A-10 because it is the best place we could land without football. I suppose you can choose to believe that we do not have football because of Bonnie Coneís mythical grandson, Chancellor Woodward did not like football, or Judy Rose only wants womenís sports, but the truth is it is all about money. Charlotte does not have much.

The 49er Club is the fundraising organization responsible for bringing in the bucks and they do roll up to the ADís office, so it is fair to say that Judy Rose owns the money problem. I believe that there are less than 2000 members of the 49er Club, so if you take $3 million per year as a minimum that we need to do any kind of a football program that means that each 49er Club member needs to donate an extra $1500 each year. I do not think that I can do that. If your suggestion is that the Athletic Department should just go get the money from Wachovia, BofA, and Lowes I ask you why would they join us in a big way when we can only rally 2000 people to join our booster club? We have 70,000 living alumni. Where are they?

Judy Rose may not be the AD that we need, but I do not think that I am seeing any well thought out arguments as to why. Show me the light.
Come again?  Put the pipe down.  140,000 now
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 12:37:49 am by metro »


metro

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Reply #59 on: January 19, 2018, 12:35:27 am
Quote from: TheProvider;232724
I might be wrong, but where did I say I know you?  To my knowledge I have never met you, but I do know who you are as you have revealed it in any number of ways during baseball discussions.  I consider all of the above Niners, because they bought in to us.  Is Coach K a Blue Devil?  Didn't go to school there.  Don't you consider Danny Devos a Niner?  I do.  Charlotte will embrace us when we give them a reason to.  When we win in men's basketball, people show up.  When we don't, we are an afterthought.  And I don't understand what you really want.  You want alumni to steer the program, but to hire BCS types to high level jobs.  Aren't those mutually exclusive?  I think there are two actual alums on the admin staff, so its not as if they are non existent.


I think Metro is trying to say that the Atheletic Department needs a facelift.  Most of the people at key jobs have been around for sometime and have become comfortable in their ways.  I agree, we need some very intense and aggressive talent in the department to bring a new perspective to how we want this program to look over the next 2, 5, 10 years.
Good call Whit


 

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