Author Topic: Bring back Bobby Lutz!!!  (Read 32124 times)

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NinerPride

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Reply #25 on: December 14, 2017, 06:47:52 pm
Please no.  It sounds like the type of decision we would make and it would be yet another catastrophe.  He couldnít win in the a10, heís got no shot at this joke of a conference.  People remembering his early success forget he inherited a strong team in a strong conference.  Obviously neither is the case at this time.  He was a one trick pony unable to adjust to the skill set of his players.  We would shoot 3ís to no end whether anyone was capable of hitting them or not. 


TRLeader

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Reply #26 on: December 14, 2017, 07:33:48 pm
We would shoot 3ís to no end...


Which is all the rage even in the NBA now....what....10+ years later.


I get it...you gotta have the shooters to execute the philosophy...but we had our share during his run...that's what he valued.
Bobby always said...statistically....it made more sense to shoot an open 3 than a contested 2. 
Math...statistics...some call it "money ball"...or metrics.


Like it or not...Bobby was WAYYYY ahead of that curve.


MANY teams in the NBA have proven he was right and have now adopted that strategy for their own.


Just saying.
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Ninercentral

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Reply #27 on: December 14, 2017, 07:38:26 pm
This thread is stupid. We need new blood.


919R

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Reply #28 on: December 14, 2017, 08:02:20 pm
Please no.  It sounds like the type of decision we would make and it would be yet another catastrophe.  He couldnít win in the a10, heís got no shot at this joke of a conference.  People remembering his early success forget he inherited a strong team in a strong conference.  Obviously neither is the case at this time.  He was a one trick pony unable to adjust to the skill set of his players.  We would shoot 3ís to no end whether anyone was capable of hitting them or not.
.  You're clueless.


919R

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Reply #29 on: December 14, 2017, 08:05:28 pm
Love Bobby as a person, but they would lose me if they bring him back as coach because I wasn't a fan of his coaching and recruiting at the end of his tenure here.  Plus, he could NEVER teach good fundamental defense, and his teams would always have opponent's guys getting wide open shots, which would drive me crazy.
.    Not true. That is a myth.


itsbraille49

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Reply #30 on: December 14, 2017, 08:14:46 pm
Bobby would not do this with Phil or judy here. I donít think he has the talent to dig us out of this hole.

C-Pip's right.  About EVERYTHING.

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ghostofclt

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Reply #31 on: December 14, 2017, 08:59:08 pm
clt would welcome lutz back, only if lutz has the mustache.


UnclePugsly

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Reply #32 on: December 14, 2017, 09:32:45 pm
Lutz should be seriously looked at IF he is interested.  I had 'heard' several weeks ago that Lutz had assembled a 'shadow' staff and advisors.  Lutz could hit the ground running.


ice_cold49er

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Reply #33 on: December 14, 2017, 10:05:46 pm
Love Bobby as a person, but they would lose me if they bring him back as coach because I wasn't a fan of his coaching and recruiting at the end of his tenure here.  Plus, he could NEVER teach good fundamental defense, and his teams would always have opponent's guys getting wide open shots, which would drive me crazy.
.    Not true. That is a myth.


You may want Bobby back, but this was very true.  Look back and see how many post there were on this very board during his final years talking about how he needed to hire an assistant that could actually teach defense.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 10:07:20 pm by ice_cold49er »


919R

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Reply #34 on: December 14, 2017, 10:19:20 pm
Love Bobby as a person, but they would lose me if they bring him back as coach because I wasn't a fan of his coaching and recruiting at the end of his tenure here.  Plus, he could NEVER teach good fundamental defense, and his teams would always have opponent's guys getting wide open shots, which would drive me crazy.
.    Not true. That is a myth.


You may want Bobby back, but this was very true.  Look back and see how many post there were on this very board during his final years talking about how he needed to hire an assistant that could actually teach defense.
.   Don't have to look back. I have been here all along. I know that talk was overblown, that's why I called it a myth. Lutz was actually considered a really good defensive coach for most of his years here. In fact, I remember many tv commentators calling him a "defensive specialist" with his constantly changing defenses. Also, I never said I want Bobby back as HC. However, he is so much better than what we have had after or before him I find it laughable that anyone would actually be driven OFF as a fan if he was to return, which btw will never happen.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 10:22:43 pm by 919R »


Submarley734

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Reply #35 on: December 14, 2017, 10:20:52 pm
Love Bobby as a person, but they would lose me if they bring him back as coach because I wasn't a fan of his coaching and recruiting at the end of his tenure here.  Plus, he could NEVER teach good fundamental defense, and his teams would always have opponent's guys getting wide open shots, which would drive me crazy.
.    Not true. That is a myth.


You may want Bobby back, but this was very true.  Look back and see how many post there were on this very board during his final years talking about how he needed to hire an assistant that could actually teach defense.


The only way I'd be OK with Bobby is as an AD. He might have the connections and spark to bring the program back. Please god do not hire him back as a coach.


NinerPride

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Reply #36 on: December 14, 2017, 10:31:29 pm
Please no.  It sounds like the type of decision we would make and it would be yet another catastrophe.  He couldnít win in the a10, heís got no shot at this joke of a conference.  People remembering his early success forget he inherited a strong team in a strong conference.  Obviously neither is the case at this time.  He was a one trick pony unable to adjust to the skill set of his players.  We would shoot 3ís to no end whether anyone was capable of hitting them or not.
.  You're clueless.

Such a strong rebuttal.  You fit in well on this board.  At least pretend to have some class.


ice_cold49er

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Reply #37 on: December 14, 2017, 10:54:34 pm
Love Bobby as a person, but they would lose me if they bring him back as coach because I wasn't a fan of his coaching and recruiting at the end of his tenure here.  Plus, he could NEVER teach good fundamental defense, and his teams would always have opponent's guys getting wide open shots, which would drive me crazy.
.    Not true. That is a myth.


You may want Bobby back, but this was very true.  Look back and see how many post there were on this very board during his final years talking about how he needed to hire an assistant that could actually teach defense.
.   Don't have to look back. I have been here all along. I know that talk was overblown, that's why I called it a myth. Lutz was actually considered a really good defensive coach for most of his years here. In fact, I remember many tv commentators calling him a "defensive specialist" with his constantly changing defenses. Also, I never said I want Bobby back as HC. However, he is so much better than what we have had after or before him I find it laughable that anyone would actually be driven OFF as a fan if he was to return, which btw will never happen.


His teams poor defensive performances were not "overblown", and the fact that it was noticed and discussed by so many on here should let you know that it wasn't a myth.  I do not EVER recall Bobby Lutz being referred to as a defensive specialist, but do recall a couple announcers calling him a specialist at switching defenses (as you did mention).  That was one of the arguments that most had was that we played several different defenses, but had mastered none.  Many times it would cause our own team to get lost.  I can't, and won't, argue with Bobby's success when he had shooters on his team.  Plus, he was the most successful coach we had after Lee Rose, and it has been pitiful since him.  I just don't think he would energize the fan base as a whole, and I have already seen him reach what I believe was his peak here.  I just feel it is time for new blood, but I don't trust Judy to make the right choice though.


shagg49er

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Reply #38 on: December 15, 2017, 08:34:15 am
Love Bobby as a person, but they would lose me if they bring him back as coach because I wasn't a fan of his coaching and recruiting at the end of his tenure here.  Plus, he could NEVER teach good fundamental defense, and his teams would always have opponent's guys getting wide open shots, which would drive me crazy.
.    Not true. That is a myth.


You may want Bobby back, but this was very true.  Look back and see how many post there were on this very board during his final years talking about how he needed to hire an assistant that could actually teach defense.
.   Don't have to look back. I have been here all along. I know that talk was overblown, that's why I called it a myth. Lutz was actually considered a really good defensive coach for most of his years here. In fact, I remember many tv commentators calling him a "defensive specialist" with his constantly changing defenses. Also, I never said I want Bobby back as HC. However, he is so much better than what we have had after or before him I find it laughable that anyone would actually be driven OFF as a fan if he was to return, which btw will never happen.


His teams poor defensive performances were not "overblown", and the fact that it was noticed and discussed by so many on here should let you know that it wasn't a myth.  I do not EVER recall Bobby Lutz being referred to as a defensive specialist, but do recall a couple announcers calling him a specialist at switching defenses (as you did mention).  That was one of the arguments that most had was that we played several different defenses, but had mastered none.  Many times it would cause our own team to get lost.  I can't, and won't, argue with Bobby's success when he had shooters on his team.  Plus, he was the most successful coach we had after Lee Rose, and it has been pitiful since him.  I just don't think he would energize the fan base as a whole, and I have already seen him reach what I believe was his peak here.  I just feel it is time for new blood, but I don't trust Judy to make the right choice though.


The thing is that even though a message board thinks they know basketball it does not mean they do. I do not mean offense to you directly because I have no idea your background, but as a whole I cannot imagine there are a ton of former or current coaches or people that sat in on practices/studied 49er game film during his tenure. Coach Lutz was absolutely considered a defensive specialist especially early in his career. His ability to switch defenses depending on the team he was playing was masterful. Later in his tenure when the athleticism suffered as they transitioned to the A10 recruiting it absolutely had holes. I don't know if Coach Lutz would even want to come back or if he is the right fit. I do know that we wouldn't be 3-6 with not a single win over a Top 300 school if he had not been fired. Some people here will romanticize his tenure as being all good (it wasn't) and some will say he got lucky with other people's players (patently false, hell the 04-05 team that was 21-4 at one point was ALL Coach Lutz and staff).


Whoever we get Scheyer, Sanchez, Caputo, Lutz, etc. is going to have a hell of a time getting us back to any sort of recognizable place. The current talent is low. There is nothing in the recruiting classes that is changing that. We are a dozen years from good and 40 years from great. I am sorry that Price was not the correct hire (He was not). I am sorry Major had health issues. I just don't want to be sorry again, because at that point we become (maybe we already are) at best Middle Tennessee State and at worst....this. That....sucks.


metro

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Reply #39 on: December 15, 2017, 08:42:20 am
I think EVERYONE thought the decision to remove Bobby (at the time) was correct.  We were all angry going 19-11.  We crashed that year hard.

That said.  Hindsight is 20-20.  Now we know the toxic rot these basketball coaches have to deal with from Judy and Phil.  Not sure Billy Donovan could win here.  Right kids, no jucos, all these blue hair senior citizen mandates the donors told Judy they want in a program.  Rat poison.

I think Bobby could come back now (with new AD and chancellor) if he were allowed to pay his assistants, recruit guys he wants, and admin stay the hell away from Lutz' office. 

Thats not happening. 


9erken

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Reply #40 on: December 15, 2017, 09:10:37 am
Lutz' defensive switching was gimmicky. It worked well against teams that had sloppy play, responded poorly to change, and had limited offensive patience (e.g. Memphis or Umass). Teams that were patient offensively and moved the ball found easy holes, because guys often didn't rotate correctly. I think that was the double-edged sword with switching defenses so much, you catch some teams off-guard in the middle of a game, but you also don't perform as cohesively as if you practice a consistent defense. It's not some kind of genius move, it just takes the high-risk option of a trade-off that most coaches consider. It's a lot like Lutz' offenses too, high-risk high potential reward that allowed us to beat better teams when gunners were hot and to lose to terrible teams when they were not.

High levels of athleticism and some kind of shot-blocking presence down low could sometimes cover for the poor rotation until we hit teams that were athletically similar but also well-coached enough to take advantage. It explains both the ceiling Lutz hit with his best teams and how badly the defense fell apart against patient teams, particularly later in his career.

I also think Lutz lost some of his motivation for coaching defense later in his career. It showed in his contract-year performance, in which we did improve defensively and Lutz openly talked about emphasizing it in practice, followed by utter defensive collapse the very next year once he got his last extension.

I agree with Shagg49er too though, it's possible to take a reasonable view of Lutz with or without wanting him back here. Lutz wasn't all bad and he wasn't all good. He had a lot of success building off of what Mullins and Watkins had done (to which he contributed), and it's the reason he's a legend at Charlotte. His conference tournament runs showcased his ability to motivate and catch other teams unprepared. He also had some really poor years near the end with limited future prospects that justified a change. Though the administration really screwed up that contract extension then firing sequence, no idea why Lutz' extension was so generous in the event of firing given how weak his leverage should have been.


9erken

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Reply #41 on: December 15, 2017, 09:15:42 am
.it made more sense to shoot an open 3 than a contested 2.
But what about a contested 3 versus a contested 2? 


ghostofclt

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Reply #42 on: December 15, 2017, 09:24:27 am



ghostofclt

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Reply #43 on: December 15, 2017, 09:26:00 am


clt was in vegas. made some money on the 49ers that night


ghostofclt

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Reply #44 on: December 15, 2017, 09:31:40 am

clt says haltron was so loud. diego talking sheet to the best player in college bball.


UnclePugsly

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Reply #45 on: December 15, 2017, 10:10:22 am
Love Bobby as a person, but they would lose me if they bring him back as coach because I wasn't a fan of his coaching and recruiting at the end of his tenure here.  Plus, he could NEVER teach good fundamental defense, and his teams would always have opponent's guys getting wide open shots, which would drive me crazy.
.    Not true. That is a myth.


You may want Bobby back, but this was very true.  Look back and see how many post there were on this very board during his final years talking about how he needed to hire an assistant that could actually teach defense.
.   Don't have to look back. I have been here all along. I know that talk was overblown, that's why I called it a myth. Lutz was actually considered a really good defensive coach for most of his years here. In fact, I remember many tv commentators calling him a "defensive specialist" with his constantly changing defenses. Also, I never said I want Bobby back as HC. However, he is so much better than what we have had after or before him I find it laughable that anyone would actually be driven OFF as a fan if he was to return, which btw will never happen.


His teams poor defensive performances were not "overblown", and the fact that it was noticed and discussed by so many on here should let you know that it wasn't a myth.  I do not EVER recall Bobby Lutz being referred to as a defensive specialist, but do recall a couple announcers calling him a specialist at switching defenses (as you did mention).  That was one of the arguments that most had was that we played several different defenses, but had mastered none.  Many times it would cause our own team to get lost.  I can't, and won't, argue with Bobby's success when he had shooters on his team.  Plus, he was the most successful coach we had after Lee Rose, and it has been pitiful since him.  I just don't think he would energize the fan base as a whole, and I have already seen him reach what I believe was his peak here.  I just feel it is time for new blood, but I don't trust Judy to make the right choice though.


The thing is that even though a message board thinks they know basketball it does not mean they do. I do not mean offense to you directly because I have no idea your background, but as a whole I cannot imagine there are a ton of former or current coaches or people that sat in on practices/studied 49er game film during his tenure. Coach Lutz was absolutely considered a defensive specialist especially early in his career. His ability to switch defenses depending on the team he was playing was masterful. Later in his tenure when the athleticism suffered as they transitioned to the A10 recruiting it absolutely had holes. I don't know if Coach Lutz would even want to come back or if he is the right fit. I do know that we wouldn't be 3-6 with not a single win over a Top 300 school if he had not been fired. Some people here will romanticize his tenure as being all good (it wasn't) and some will say he got lucky with other people's players (patently false, hell the 04-05 team that was 21-4 at one point was ALL Coach Lutz and staff).


Whoever we get Scheyer, Sanchez, Caputo, Lutz, etc. is going to have a hell of a time getting us back to any sort of recognizable place. The current talent is low. There is nothing in the recruiting classes that is changing that. We are a dozen years from good and 40 years from great. I am sorry that Price was not the correct hire (He was not). I am sorry Major had health issues. I just don't want to be sorry again, because at that point we become (maybe we already are) at best Middle Tennessee State and at worst....this. That....sucks.
This was such a good post I wanted to chime in with my 2 cents that yes, early into CUSA 1.0 Lutz and his teams were constantly referred to as a being really good with rapid changes in game (not after timeouts) defensive schemes - I certainly remember that.

As for the next coach digging the Niner Mens BB out of this pit in any kind of reasonable time, it will require someone who can get talented Juco's and transfers - and knows how to bring a group like that together -que Lutz.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 10:12:27 am by UnclePugsly »


metro

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Reply #46 on: December 15, 2017, 10:24:17 am

clt says haltron was so loud. diego talking sheet to the best player in college bball.
right kind of kids? 


BigTimeNiner

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Reply #47 on: December 15, 2017, 10:28:52 am
As Punchdrunk stated, Hindsight is 20/20.  Times have changed and
I don't ever see us being a consistent top 50 team.  Best we can hope
for is to put together a team every 2 or 3 years that can make some
noise.

Lutz could do this.  I would stand up and applaud if he were ever back
on the sideline with his passion coaching Charlotte.


49r9r

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Reply #48 on: December 15, 2017, 10:34:04 am

clt says haltron was so loud. diego talking sheet to the best player in college bball.
right kind of kids?

Watching that video makes me even more pissed at the s*** Judy and Phil have done to us. 
Charlotte 49er Campus Beer Drinking Contest Runner Up 1974, 1975, 1976


TRLeader

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Reply #49 on: December 15, 2017, 10:34:28 am
And like many people have already stated...our AD is now PUBLICLY a joke.  No one with ANY type of pedigree or who is the "next hot name" looking to make a move will consider us at this point.


Bobby may be the only one crazy enough and willing to take the job.


Tell me how passionate and motivated he would be to be the coach to come BACK and raise us from the ashes all in Judy's face.


He would do it....just to stick it to her by cementing HIS legacy at HIS school.


Think about it....who else would be THAT motivated to turn things around here??


Nobody.
Niner Nation wanted football...we got football
Niner Nation wanted Judy gone....Judy's gone
Niner Nation wanted the Tarhole sign gone from I85...the sign in gone

Name Change.......YOU'RE NEXT!!!!


 

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