Author Topic: Bring back Bobby Lutz!!!  (Read 31538 times)

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Wingate49erFan

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Reply #450 on: February 11, 2018, 11:07:23 pm
I said it before I'll say it again.  With Judy here hiring Bobby made sense as he knew how to win under her putrid leadership. 


With her gone we need to look forward.  While yes Bobby would get people excited, let's not forget his final 5 years here.  I would welcome him back if it happened, but I believe the future of our program lays in front of us, not looking behind.  There are many qualified candidates out there - ones with current recruiting connections, ones hungry to make a name for themselves. 


I think many here are gun shy because we have had two straight failed hires that have sunk this program.  Here is the thing though - a NEW person will be making this hire.  We can't let Judy's past screw ups convince us that we can't hire a new guy that can get us straightened out.

Best post I've seen on this .  I was going to post an identical statement.  Don't forget the last five years of Bobby an don't forget he's probably lost touch in the recruiting game which he hated anyway.
Bobby's last 5 were still better than what we have had during the 8 years since.

But it's not where we want to be. I don't care that it's much better than we are, hell, everything is. I want us to be GREAT. Not a mediocre 125-150 team.
Not gonna have a chance to be great while we are in our current conference. Bobby would get us back to solid footing and hopefully a chance to jump back to the American, if our new AD has any brains of course. There is no home run hire to be made at our current level. It will just be taking a chance on yet another unknown like Major or Price was. Bobby gets us back to winning seasons at the very least - which should be the first goal when you've dipped into the 300s. And I think he could win the Bobby Lutz Invitational at least one more time.
Got Lutz?


49ER9ER

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Reply #451 on: February 12, 2018, 02:03:12 am
NinerAdvocate, you are not entitled to your own facts.  You accused me of having 46 posts and all of them being related to this topic. That is just a flat-out lie. I understand that you may be one of the very few that does not want Bobby back but you cannot create your own narrative. And for the record, I am not in love with Bobby I am just in love with success. I happen to know how to get there. I am not sure I am a big fan of your strategy of anybody but Bobby. Now, end it with the personal attacks and post things that are productive.


NewNiner

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Reply #452 on: February 12, 2018, 03:54:15 am
It sounds to me like the majority actually don't want him back, but a very vocal, small minority does.

As I've said before, there's as much evidence that Bobby's last 5 years were the beginning of this entire backslide as there is that he was the architect of his early success. He took over a winning program and sustained it for a few years, but then we really started to taper off. It's certainly better than what we have now, but there's at least some logic in seeing that it may have been the beginning of what we have now. There were a few losing seasons in there, big losses, late collapses, etc. Bobby never loved to recruit and he hasn't had to do it in a while. That makes it tough to get back in the game. Those last 5 years were all on the heels of sustained success, a better conference affiliation, more talent to begin with, etc.

Again, we all like Bobby. He's a great guy, but there's as much to suggest he inherited a great situation and couldn't sustain it for the long haul as there is that he built anything up.  There wasn't much trending at that point - 14 wins to 20 wins to 11 wins to 19 wins.

Bobby is a good coach, a good guy, and great with fans/boosters. I'm just not convinced (nor is most of the fan base) that he's the hire that needs to be made for a team looking forward.
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NinerAdvocate

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Reply #453 on: February 12, 2018, 05:34:18 am
Mon, Nov 19, 2007

Monmouth 58
Charlotte 56 (OT)

Monmouth finished that season @ 7-24 (.226), ranked #8 in the NEC, and #310 out of 328 D1 teams. That was Bobby Lutz's team.

I have nothing against Bobby, but the romanticizing of his era is exactly the kind of myopic childishness that we are trying to avoid.

Also:

http://ninernation.net/index.php?topic=22172.0
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 05:36:34 am by NinerAdvocate »


ghostofclt

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Reply #454 on: February 12, 2018, 07:23:47 am
clt says this chat page needs more bookworm


metro

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Reply #455 on: February 12, 2018, 08:01:46 am
Mon, Nov 19, 2007

Monmouth 58
Charlotte 56 (OT)

Monmouth finished that season @ 7-24 (.226), ranked #8 in the NEC, and #310 out of 328 D1 teams. That was Bobby Lutz's team.

I have nothing against Bobby, but the romanticizing of his era is exactly the kind of myopic childishness that we are trying to avoid.

Also:

http://ninernation.net/index.php?topic=22172.0
Myopic childishness?  :)) 

A bit extreme







winsel1081

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Reply #456 on: February 12, 2018, 10:26:15 am
NinerAdvocate, you are not entitled to your own facts.  You accused me of having 46 posts and all of them being related to this topic. That is just a flat-out lie. I understand that you may be one of the very few that does not want Bobby back but you cannot create your own narrative. And for the record, I am not in love with Bobby I am just in love with success. I happen to know how to get there. I am not sure I am a big fan of your strategy of anybody but Bobby. Now, end it with the personal attacks and post things that are productive.


You know how to get there?  Does that mean you put in for the AD job?  A bit egotistical for anyone to state they know exactly what will fix all problems.  Just because Lutz had previous success doesn't guarantee he is the person who can rebuild a program that is now in a crap conference. Whoever the next coach is they are going have to work the recruiting trail double time just to even begin to fix the problems that exist. 


Nugget

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Reply #457 on: February 12, 2018, 11:14:11 am
I'm just glad that we are in a position to argue about hiring a next coach, and generally believe it is going to be a good one.
#unc-CHeatingPays


NinerAdvocate

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Reply #458 on: February 12, 2018, 11:20:55 am
I'm just glad that we are in a position to argue about hiring a next coach, and generally believe it is going to be a good one.

That I can agree with.


TRLeader

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Reply #459 on: February 12, 2018, 11:34:23 am
Mon, Nov 19, 2007

Monmouth 58
Charlotte 56 (OT)

Monmouth finished that season @ 7-24 (.226), ranked #8 in the NEC, and #310 out of 328 D1 teams. That was Bobby Lutz's team.

I have nothing against Bobby, but the romanticizing of his era is exactly the kind of myopic childishness that we are trying to avoid.

Also:

http://ninernation.net/index.php?topic=22172.0


For the 10th time....I haven't forgotten the final years of Bobby.  My contention (right or wrong) is if Phil's interference was real....PHIL's interference (type of kids to recruit, tone down attitude, etc) is the reason for Bobby's slide. 


My only evidence is that Bobby's slide coincided with Phil's arrival...which is an absolute fact.


Take the Phil years away...and he was nearly legendary.


I would certainly entertain it for that reason alone. 
Bobby coming back without having any outside direction from Phil again (which is still a longshot) could be a homerun.
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ninerJ

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Reply #460 on: February 12, 2018, 11:45:59 am
I will say that if Bobby is indeed interested in coming back, he's had plenty of time to talk to people to have assistants lined up and time to give a helluva presentation to Phil on his growth and to a new AD on a plan and a package.
Then it would be up to those partied to decide.


919R

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Reply #461 on: February 12, 2018, 12:57:27 pm
It sounds to me like the majority actually don't want him back, but a very vocal, small minority does.

As I've said before, there's as much evidence that Bobby's last 5 years were the beginning of this entire backslide as there is that he was the architect of his early success. He took over a winning program and sustained it for a few years, but then we really started to taper off. It's certainly better than what we have now, but there's at least some logic in seeing that it may have been the beginning of what we have now. There were a few losing seasons in there, big losses, late collapses, etc. Bobby never loved to recruit and he hasn't had to do it in a while. That makes it tough to get back in the game. Those last 5 years were all on the heels of sustained success, a better conference affiliation, more talent to begin with, etc.

Again, we all like Bobby. He's a great guy, but there's as much to suggest he inherited a great situation and couldn't sustain it for the long haul as there is that he built anything up.  There wasn't much trending at that point - 14 wins to 20 wins to 11 wins to 19 wins.

Bobby is a good coach, a good guy, and great with fans/boosters. I'm just not convinced (nor is most of the fan base) that he's the hire that needs to be made for a team looking forward.


Wow, I assume you took a survey on this?  ::)


itsbraille49

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Reply #462 on: February 12, 2018, 12:59:46 pm
Mon, Nov 19, 2007

Monmouth 58
Charlotte 56 (OT)

Monmouth finished that season @ 7-24 (.226), ranked #8 in the NEC, and #310 out of 328 D1 teams. That was Bobby Lutz's team.

I have nothing against Bobby, but the romanticizing of his era is exactly the kind of myopic childishness that we are trying to avoid.

Also:

http://ninernation.net/index.php?topic=22172.0

So just for some LOLS, this was the 5th place game of the Paradise Jam. Both teams lost their first game (Charlotte to Georgia Tech, Monmouth to Notre Dame) and then won their second game. Charlotte beat Illinois-Chicago with a late Goldwire 3-pointer, and who did Monmouth beat?

None other than Wichita State with 1st year coach Gregg Marshall. Kill me now.

C-Pip's right.  About EVERYTHING.

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NewNiner

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Reply #463 on: February 12, 2018, 01:11:33 pm
It sounds to me like the majority actually don't want him back, but a very vocal, small minority does.

As I've said before, there's as much evidence that Bobby's last 5 years were the beginning of this entire backslide as there is that he was the architect of his early success. He took over a winning program and sustained it for a few years, but then we really started to taper off. It's certainly better than what we have now, but there's at least some logic in seeing that it may have been the beginning of what we have now. There were a few losing seasons in there, big losses, late collapses, etc. Bobby never loved to recruit and he hasn't had to do it in a while. That makes it tough to get back in the game. Those last 5 years were all on the heels of sustained success, a better conference affiliation, more talent to begin with, etc.

Again, we all like Bobby. He's a great guy, but there's as much to suggest he inherited a great situation and couldn't sustain it for the long haul as there is that he built anything up.  There wasn't much trending at that point - 14 wins to 20 wins to 11 wins to 19 wins.

Bobby is a good coach, a good guy, and great with fans/boosters. I'm just not convinced (nor is most of the fan base) that he's the hire that needs to be made for a team looking forward.


Wow, I assume you took a survey on this?  ::)

Not a scientific one, obviously, but an informal asking around appears to be about 20 people against, 2 or 3 open to it and another 3 or 4 absolutely on board, from those I've talked to. Hell, many don't even post in this thread because they don't take it seriously. But the opposite assertion of certain posters (the majority of the fan base wanting it or all being on board with the exception of a discreet few) doesn't appear grounded in even that informal observation, from what I've seen. I'm totally for someone putting a poll up, though. 

Substantively, however, your comment does nothing to address the logical concerns that people have expressed with a return to Lutz. TRL's point regarding Phil is logical, to the point, and could be accurate. Perhaps that truly was the root of the problem. Other issues could be: conference switch, failure to get the Tennessee job, having to start relying on his own recruiting in the latter half of his tenure, etc.
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winsel1081

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Reply #464 on: February 12, 2018, 01:30:12 pm
Mon, Nov 19, 2007

Monmouth 58
Charlotte 56 (OT)

Monmouth finished that season @ 7-24 (.226), ranked #8 in the NEC, and #310 out of 328 D1 teams. That was Bobby Lutz's team.

I have nothing against Bobby, but the romanticizing of his era is exactly the kind of myopic childishness that we are trying to avoid.

Also:

http://ninernation.net/index.php?topic=22172.0


For the 10th time....I haven't forgotten the final years of Bobby.  My contention (right or wrong) is if Phil's interference was real....PHIL's interference (type of kids to recruit, tone down attitude, etc) is the reason for Bobby's slide. 


My only evidence is that Bobby's slide coincided with Phil's arrival...which is an absolute fact.


Take the Phil years away...and he was nearly legendary.


I would certainly entertain it for that reason alone. 
Bobby coming back without having any outside direction from Phil again (which is still a longshot) could be a homerun.


Two events happening concurrent don't mean they have a direct correlation to the cause of anything.  I could make the same statement that the conference change is what caused Lutz's slide.  I seriously doubt the assertion the Phil was the sole reason for Bobby's slide considering it also began with a conference change among other things.


It is laughable for anyone to think that Lutz is the only coach out there that can turn things around, or that even he is capable of turning things around based on his previous success.  It would be a feel good story sure and would generate excitement.  For me though I could care less about a coach who generates excitement, I want a coach who in three years we are all on pins and needles hoping he doesn't get hired away.


s9er

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Reply #465 on: February 12, 2018, 01:46:41 pm
I like Bobby, like him a lot.. and could see a scenario where he would be successful.....  BUT..

The nostalgia is getting thick here... and we are losing sight of some key considerations here

  • The seniors currently at Charlotte were around 8 years old the last time Lutz took a Charlotte Team to the NCAA Tournament. I'm not sure current students could pick him out of a one man lineup
  • Recruits were 7/8/9 years old the last time the guy was a head coach. His name isn't going to carry the cache it did in 2000.
  • He hasn't coached a meaningful college game in 8 years


NinerWupAss

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Reply #466 on: February 12, 2018, 02:05:23 pm
I think Phil has been a huge impact on athletics.  Now the question is - has he been involved because he didn't trust Judy or has he been involved because he wants to be?


We are about to find out.
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metro

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Reply #467 on: February 12, 2018, 02:08:18 pm
I think Phil has been a huge impact on athletics.  Now the question is - has he been involved because he didn't trust Judy or has he been involved because he wants to be?


We are about to find out.

He totally trusted Judy.  Every quote he used regarding sports the past 8 years was directly from Judy's mouth. 


NinerWupAss

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Reply #468 on: February 12, 2018, 02:54:17 pm
I think Phil has been a huge impact on athletics.  Now the question is - has he been involved because he didn't trust Judy or has he been involved because he wants to be?


We are about to find out.

He totally trusted Judy.  Every quote he used regarding sports the past 8 years was directly from Judy's mouth.


Well that is what we get publicly.  The reality is he didn't hire her.  Privately we have no idea how he really felt about her.  I think we all know that firing her, which he basically did, wasn't possible until the circumstances played out as they did.  He knew that.  He also knew she was close friends with many donors.  There is no way he was going to question her or do anything to break the the public perception.  That is rule #1 of management - you have your peoples back no matter publicly and then coach them privately.


I am just saying he is hiring someone HE WANTS.  Because he is doing that, he has an opportunity to completely hand over tasks to the new AD.  I know for a fact he has been far more involved in coaching hires than most chancellors.  Either he didn't trust Judy to make the hire on her own OR he just likes to be overly involved.  With this being his AD hire I think we will be able to tell who is pulling the strings rather quickly.
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metro

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Reply #469 on: February 12, 2018, 03:21:48 pm
I think Phil has been a huge impact on athletics.  Now the question is - has he been involved because he didn't trust Judy or has he been involved because he wants to be?


We are about to find out.

He totally trusted Judy.  Every quote he used regarding sports the past 8 years was directly from Judy's mouth.


Well that is what we get publicly.  The reality is he didn't hire her.  Privately we have no idea how he really felt about her.  I think we all know that firing her, which he basically did, wasn't possible until the circumstances played out as they did.  He knew that.  He also knew she was close friends with many donors.  There is no way he was going to question her or do anything to break the the public perception.  That is rule #1 of management - you have your peoples back no matter publicly and then coach them privately.


I am just saying he is hiring someone HE WANTS.  Because he is doing that, he has an opportunity to completely hand over tasks to the new AD.  I know for a fact he has been far more involved in coaching hires than most chancellors.  Either he didn't trust Judy to make the hire on her own OR he just likes to be overly involved.  With this being his AD hire I think we will be able to tell who is pulling the strings rather quickly.
good points. 

I gather he completely trusted Judy because the man really had no original thoughts on sports ever.  Its like Judy handed him a cheat sheet 8 years.  Just like I would need if I had to address the media about chemistry.  When he did ad lib you get the famous WFNZ disaster with Mac.  He always regurgitated what she said years before he arrived.  When it comes to light rail or academia he is full of his own thoughts, and quite different and somewhat tolerable.  He also kept her on his "cabinet" as he loved to say, even for a FBS football start up, if he didn't trust her then he is dumber than I already think he is.  Now, I would conclude somewhere in the fog of Major-Price-Lambert debacles he finally said Wtf if wrong with this lady.

I totally buy the theory is he SICK OF SPORTS and wants a capable person, finally. 


NinerWupAss

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Reply #470 on: February 12, 2018, 03:28:12 pm

I totally buy the theory is he SICK OF SPORTS and wants a capable person, finally.


I think I speak for nearly all of us when I say let's hope this to be the case.
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4ever niner

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Reply #471 on: February 12, 2018, 06:27:23 pm
Rumor has it that Dubois is a micromanager. Let's hope this isn't the case or we will get the same old s*** regardless of who the AD is.


NinerWupAss

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Reply #472 on: February 12, 2018, 06:45:28 pm
Rumor has it that Dubois is a micromanager. Let's hope this isn't the case or we will get the same old s*** regardless of who the AD is.

Itís not a rumor.  Itís true.  Question is when it comes to sports did he micromanage because he had to or wanted to?
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Reply #473 on: February 13, 2018, 12:58:09 pm
Rumor has it that Dubois is a micromanager. Let's hope this isn't the case or we will get the same old s*** regardless of who the AD is.

Itís not a rumor.  Itís true.  Question is when it comes to sports did he micromanage because he had to or wanted to?

Another wrinkle to this, Judy was obviously going to please her boss to the extreme, if he was going to micromanage she was going to let him.  Let's hope the new guy comes in and if/when Phil decides to meddle in Athletics the new AD says back off I got this... we will see soon enough.
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4ever niner

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Reply #474 on: February 13, 2018, 01:54:48 pm
Rumor has it that Dubois is a micromanager. Let's hope this isn't the case or we will get the same old s*** regardless of who the AD is.

Itís not a rumor.  Itís true.  Question is when it comes to sports did he micromanage because he had to or wanted to?

Another wrinkle to this, Judy was obviously going to please her boss to the extreme, if he was going to micromanage she was going to let him.  Let's hope the new guy comes in and if/when Phil decides to meddle in Athletics the new AD says back off I got this... we will see soon enough.
If the new AD is young they will A) Let Phil meddle B) Tell him to back off and live a miserable existence while he makes their life Hell or outright fires them or C) Grin and bear it while counting the days until he goes away.


BTW, University of Charlotte!


 

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