Author Topic: Shane Montgomery Offense  (Read 2461 times)

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ImfromClayton

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on: December 26, 2017, 05:09:05 pm
Ok guys,

So I spent this afternoon watching 3 youngstown state games (NDSU, Wofford, Jacksonville State) from 2016.  I couldn't seem to find anything from last year, but no worries. 

Youngstown had a very good running back, and they tried to get him the ball as frequently as possible.  They struggled at QB.  The basic goals of their offense are very similar to Jeff Mullens philosophically.  They spread the receivers wide, and try to run the ball.  They try to catch you sleeping with a play action deep ball.

Film:

The first play I saw was a read option out of the shotgun, and I almost threw my laptop, but then something amazing happened.  Youngstown state got in a huddle.  They proceeded to do this after every offensive snap, in every game I watched, except in the 2 minute offense.  Fascinating. 

The first game I watched was Jacksonville State.  Youngstown was better than JSU.  They run the ball everywhere.  They zone block, power block, iso block, read options, sweeps, traps, if there is a way to run the ball, they do it.  They do not do as many jet sweeps and reverses.  Expect to see much more down hill running. In summary, less gimmicks, more downhill running.  As a lineman, you must know your assignment, and do your job.

Another thing I noticed is that Shane Montgomery likes to go under center quite a bit.  They ran a pro I for more than half the game against JSU. They also moved into Single Back sets, as well as shotgun, and pistol sets, but the pro I was most commonly used in this game.  A versatile H back was a major cog to everything they did. 

JSU ran a lot of cover 3, and Youngstown ran a lot of smash routes (short and long combinations on the outside, make the corner pick one).  I don't think that Jeff Mullen's route combinations were illogical, but this offense is more deliberate, and less reactionary.

Wofford was a better defensive team than was JSU.  Wofford basically dared them to throw the ball. Youngstown ran a lot of single back, and shotgun/pistol sets against Wofford.  They were still very run heavy.  Wofford's corners played about 7 yards off, so Youngstown attacked the flats quite a bit. What I loved to see was a lot of crossing routes a against man coverage, and a lot of screens against soft coverage.

NDSU was a different story. NDSU was significantly better than Youngstown.  Youngstown still had some success running the ball, but the QB was exposed.  Youngstown ran spread pretty much the entire game.  They had some success throwing the ball, but their QB was simply not talented enough to pull them through.

Reactions:
Shane likes to have a variety of offensive sets, and go with what works against a given opponent.  I like that.

Klugh will at the very least have an offensive package.  Montgomery had a little fast guy, and a set of plays to run with him.  It worked ok. I did not see a designed QB run except for the special package.

Youngstown was able to be FCS runner up with sub par QB play.

We gotta be able to complete passes, and make teams fear the occasional deep ball.

Our lineman are going to have to shoulder the load.

This offense is predicated on protecting the football.

Shane doesn't call plays the QB can't handle.  He knew when his QB was in over his head, and when he wasn't.  He seems like a great coach for developing QBs.

I liked what I saw.  If nothing else, this offense will provide more rest for our Defense, and do a better job of featuring our running back stable, especially Benny LeMay  I am very interested to see what transpires with recruits and transfers.







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Reply #1 on: December 26, 2017, 06:44:28 pm
Thanks for the awesome break down.  It will be interesting to see if Klugh wins the QB battle this year.  I love what you had to say about Lemay.  Our RBs pleasantly surprised me last year.  One of the few bright spots.  Our offensive line concerns me very much.  I am not sure if the struggles last year were due to scheme or talent.


cibik02

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Reply #2 on: December 26, 2017, 06:57:12 pm
Man it's hard to want success for this new guy and through no fault of his own. I don't want Lambert winning 3 or 4 games and the AD not firing him. It's 6 wins or bust. Funny typing that when it wasn't even 2 games or bust this year.

I'm interested to see what a new OC can do but I don't expect much with the players he has to work with and Lambert as HC. We'll see.


ImfromClayton

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Reply #3 on: December 26, 2017, 07:27:49 pm
We lost 4 fumbles and had 14 interceptions for a total of 18 turnovers.  That's actually a lot better than it could have been, as we fumbled the ball 13 times, we just recovered 9 of those.  So we had 18 turnovers as an offense and scored 20 touchdowns.

We intercepted 2 passes, but recovered an astounding 9 fumbles defensively.  Teams that go negative in the turnover margin for the year don't win often, and we went -7.  That's much better than I thought it was gonna be.

We Also had 73 penalties for 716 yards. 
Our opponents had 55 penalties for 466 yards.

We were 4 -13 on field goal attempts. 

I don't say any of this to relive nightmares, but if we even improve to the mean, we will be a significantly improved football team.  Our offense doesn't even have to be that good, but if they run the ball, take some time off the clock, don't turn it over constantly, stay disciplined (less penalties) and play the field position game, we will have something going.  If we can just get our kickers to a little over 50%, you never know. 

We only got completely destroyed 4 times. Were certainly not gonna win every game, but this is the type of set up that has the potential for a huge swing in the win/loss column (Ex. Fresno State 2016-2017).  Penalties, turnovers, and the kicking game are some of the easiest things in football to remedy, but they take work.

These issues must be preached from day 1 of spring practice.  Also, if we want a swing in the "W" column like Fresno, that transfer QB from a p5 school wouldn't hurt. ;D



chasmo101

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Reply #4 on: December 26, 2017, 10:14:46 pm
Ok guys,

So I spent this afternoon watching 3 youngstown state games (NDSU, Wofford, Jacksonville State) from 2016.  I couldn't seem to find anything from last year, but no worries. 

Youngstown had a very good running back, and they tried to get him the ball as frequently as possible.  They struggled at QB.  The basic goals of their offense are very similar to Jeff Mullens philosophically.  They spread the receivers wide, and try to run the ball.  They try to catch you sleeping with a play action deep ball.

Film:

The first play I saw was a read option out of the shotgun, and I almost threw my laptop, but then something amazing happened.  Youngstown state got in a huddle.  They proceeded to do this after every offensive snap, in every game I watched, except in the 2 minute offense.  Fascinating. 

The first game I watched was Jacksonville State.  Youngstown was better than JSU.  They run the ball everywhere.  They zone block, power block, iso block, read options, sweeps, traps, if there is a way to run the ball, they do it.  They do not do as many jet sweeps and reverses.  Expect to see much more down hill running. In summary, less gimmicks, more downhill running.  As a lineman, you must know your assignment, and do your job.

Another thing I noticed is that Shane Montgomery likes to go under center quite a bit.  They ran a pro I for more than half the game against JSU. They also moved into Single Back sets, as well as shotgun, and pistol sets, but the pro I was most commonly used in this game.  A versatile H back was a major cog to everything they did. 

JSU ran a lot of cover 3, and Youngstown ran a lot of smash routes (short and long combinations on the outside, make the corner pick one).  I don't think that Jeff Mullen's route combinations were illogical, but this offense is more deliberate, and less reactionary.

Wofford was a better defensive team than was JSU.  Wofford basically dared them to throw the ball. Youngstown ran a lot of single back, and shotgun/pistol sets against Wofford.  They were still very run heavy.  Wofford's corners played about 7 yards off, so Youngstown attacked the flats quite a bit. What I loved to see was a lot of crossing routes a against man coverage, and a lot of screens against soft coverage.

NDSU was a different story. NDSU was significantly better than Youngstown.  Youngstown still had some success running the ball, but the QB was exposed.  Youngstown ran spread pretty much the entire game.  They had some success throwing the ball, but their QB was simply not talented enough to pull them through.

Reactions:
Shane likes to have a variety of offensive sets, and go with what works against a given opponent.  I like that.

Klugh will at the very least have an offensive package.  Montgomery had a little fast guy, and a set of plays to run with him.  It worked ok. I did not see a designed QB run except for the special package.

Youngstown was able to be FCS runner up with sub par QB play.

We gotta be able to complete passes, and make teams fear the occasional deep ball.

Our lineman are going to have to shoulder the load.

This offense is predicated on protecting the football.

Shane doesn't call plays the QB can't handle.  He knew when his QB was in over his head, and when he wasn't.  He seems like a great coach for developing QBs.

I liked what I saw.  If nothing else, this offense will provide more rest for our Defense, and do a better job of featuring our running back stable, especially Benny LeMay  I am very interested to see what transpires with recruits and transfers.

Good read, thank you. I am very optimistic going into next season. 

Montgomery will have a core retuning on offense, the line will have an offseason to improve, get stronger.. and we add 3 jucos OL and 3 redshirt freshmen OL to provide additional depth and competition.
 How the QB position develops...that is the key. Who wins the starting position... klugh, Thompson, a redshirt freshman or a true freshman.
The big question is, do we land a 5th year QB? This hire certainly helps.


Tintin

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Reply #5 on: December 26, 2017, 10:36:38 pm
Did they have any guards or tackles pulling?
I feel like our running offense was "block the guy in front of you, rb is going to go into the gap on the side of the ball he was standing on when the qb hands him the ball".
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moss2k

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Reply #6 on: December 26, 2017, 10:42:46 pm
Unless he has a magic wand to fix Klugh and his inaccuracies, he'd better hope Pope or Roof are the answer. Maybe they can pull a JUCO or Grad transfer out of the hat, we need it in the worst way.


ghostofclt

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Reply #7 on: December 27, 2017, 08:02:57 am
clt says klugh May be better suited to play safety.


QOSTA49er

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Reply #8 on: December 27, 2017, 08:41:05 am
Definitely a step up from Mullens


Niner National

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Reply #9 on: December 27, 2017, 08:47:27 am
Definitely a step up from Mullens
yeah but so is this



ImfromClayton

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Reply #10 on: December 27, 2017, 08:53:25 am
Did they have any guards or tackles pulling?
I feel like our running offense was "block the guy in front of you, rb is going to go into the gap on the side of the ball he was standing on when the qb hands him the ball".

Tintin, Mullens ran a lot of zone blocking schemes, which means nobody pulls.  He did like to trap with the H back quite a bit.  We did occasionally pull a lead blocker, but that's tougher to do out of the gun.

We forget how good that original class of kids was.  Kalif, Austin, Larry, Brandon were dominant players.  Matt was a much more gifted passer than Klugh is. 

It was unquestionably time for Mullens to go, but he sure seemed a lot smarter with Matt, Austin, and Kalif.   :rolleyes: 


ImfromClayton

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Reply #11 on: December 27, 2017, 09:02:13 am
Mullens catches a worse rap than he deserves.  His ultimate problem was not having a quarterback through several cycles of recruiting.  Riley Ferguson's success only compounded that.  When we were able to throw the ball down field and spread out defenses, it's amazing how much of a better play caller he was.

Many teams reach a point in a game in which they can't run the ball, and become one dimensional.   Well, we couldn't throw the ball, making Mullens look extremely bad.  The only lesson to be learned from this, is that I hope Coach Montgomery goes after a quarterback as hard as he can if he feels like nobody on the current roster can do it.  Programs like us should make a living off P5 transfers at the quarterback position.  We can't let Olsen scare us off.


metro

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Reply #12 on: December 27, 2017, 09:09:47 am
Mullens catches a worse rap than he deserves.  His ultimate problem was not having a quarterback through several cycles of recruiting.  Riley Ferguson's success only compounded that.  When we were able to throw the ball down field and spread out defenses, it's amazing how much of a better play caller he was.

Many teams reach a point in a game in which they can't run the ball, and become one dimensional.   Well, we couldn't throw the ball, making Mullens look extremely bad.  The only lesson to be learned from this, is that I hope Coach Montgomery goes after a quarterback as hard as he can if he feels like nobody on the current roster can do it.  Programs like us should make a living off P5 transfers at the quarterback position.  We can't let Olsen scare us off.
100%.  Talent assembled will forever in any sport be 80% of why team has success.

I remember my playing days, my dad would take me to dinner and say to me after a bad loss,  "wow Joe got hit hard today, why did coach only call fastballs?"  and my reply was always "its the only pitch Joe puts near the plate, his off speed is 2 feet out of the strikezone, coach has no choice"


mojoniner

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Reply #13 on: December 27, 2017, 09:50:42 am
Mullens catches a worse rap than he deserves.  His ultimate problem was not having a quarterback through several cycles of recruiting.  Riley Ferguson's success only compounded that.  When we were able to throw the ball down field and spread out defenses, it's amazing how much of a better play caller he was.

Many teams reach a point in a game in which they can't run the ball, and become one dimensional.   Well, we couldn't throw the ball, making Mullens look extremely bad.  The only lesson to be learned from this, is that I hope Coach Montgomery goes after a quarterback as hard as he can if he feels like nobody on the current roster can do it.  Programs like us should make a living off P5 transfers at the quarterback position.  We can't let Olsen scare us off.
100%.  Talent assembled will forever in any sport be 80% of why team has success.

I remember my playing days, my dad would take me to dinner and say to me after a bad loss,  "wow Joe got hit hard today, why did coach only call fastballs?"  and my reply was always "its the only pitch Joe puts near the plate, his off speed is 2 feet out of the strikezone, coach has no choice"

if the talent is not there then that also falls on the coaching staff.They are the ones to identify talent and to recruit the players they have on the roster. This staff(Mullen included) identified and recruited the talent. And sometimes as a coach you have to adapt to the talent you have and not try to make them do something they are not capable of doing.


metro

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Reply #14 on: December 27, 2017, 09:53:07 am
Mullens catches a worse rap than he deserves.  His ultimate problem was not having a quarterback through several cycles of recruiting.  Riley Ferguson's success only compounded that.  When we were able to throw the ball down field and spread out defenses, it's amazing how much of a better play caller he was.

Many teams reach a point in a game in which they can't run the ball, and become one dimensional.   Well, we couldn't throw the ball, making Mullens look extremely bad.  The only lesson to be learned from this, is that I hope Coach Montgomery goes after a quarterback as hard as he can if he feels like nobody on the current roster can do it.  Programs like us should make a living off P5 transfers at the quarterback position.  We can't let Olsen scare us off.
100%.  Talent assembled will forever in any sport be 80% of why team has success.

I remember my playing days, my dad would take me to dinner and say to me after a bad loss,  "wow Joe got hit hard today, why did coach only call fastballs?"  and my reply was always "its the only pitch Joe puts near the plate, his off speed is 2 feet out of the strikezone, coach has no choice"

if the talent is not there then that also falls on the coaching staff.They are the ones to identify talent and to recruit the players they have on the roster. This staff(Mullen included) identified and recruited the talent. And sometimes as a coach you have to adapt to the talent you have and not try to make them do something they are not capable of doing.

AGREE 100%.  Personally I think we recruited bodies who were physically incapable (in any scheme).   I think a good nickname for our HC is Brad "no other offers" Lambert.

but to be sure, we did well at CUSA soccer attendance
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 10:13:22 am by punchdrunk »


ImfromClayton

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Reply #15 on: December 27, 2017, 10:13:58 am
Mullens catches a worse rap than he deserves.  His ultimate problem was not having a quarterback through several cycles of recruiting.  Riley Ferguson's success only compounded that.  When we were able to throw the ball down field and spread out defenses, it's amazing how much of a better play caller he was.

Many teams reach a point in a game in which they can't run the ball, and become one dimensional.   Well, we couldn't throw the ball, making Mullens look extremely bad.  The only lesson to be learned from this, is that I hope Coach Montgomery goes after a quarterback as hard as he can if he feels like nobody on the current roster can do it.  Programs like us should make a living off P5 transfers at the quarterback position.  We can't let Olsen scare us off.
100%.  Talent assembled will forever in any sport be 80% of why team has success.

I remember my playing days, my dad would take me to dinner and say to me after a bad loss,  "wow Joe got hit hard today, why did coach only call fastballs?"  and my reply was always "its the only pitch Joe puts near the plate, his off speed is 2 feet out of the strikezone, coach has no choice"

if the talent is not there then that also falls on the coaching staff.They are the ones to identify talent and to recruit the players they have on the roster. This staff(Mullen included) identified and recruited the talent. And sometimes as a coach you have to adapt to the talent you have and not try to make them do something they are not capable of doing.

Adapting to talent is great.  Sometimes you have a talent deficiency that is not adaptable. I felt like Mullen's did a stellar job adapting to our talent. The problem is teams figured out Klugh's weaknesses as a passer, and we got exposed.

I said this repeatedly during the season.  Mullens called plays that masked Klugh.  Adkins called plays that exposed Klugh as a passer.

Klugh can certainly be better in '18, but if he's not, we have to find somebody that can throw the ball down field. The jig is up on this offense.


Tintin

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Reply #16 on: December 27, 2017, 02:43:19 pm
Did they have any guards or tackles pulling?
I feel like our running offense was "block the guy in front of you, rb is going to go into the gap on the side of the ball he was standing on when the qb hands him the ball".

Tintin, Mullens ran a lot of zone blocking schemes, which means nobody pulls.  He did like to trap with the H back quite a bit.  We did occasionally pull a lead blocker, but that's tougher to do out of the gun.

We forget how good that original class of kids was.  Kalif, Austin, Larry, Brandon were dominant players.  Matt was a much more gifted passer than Klugh is. 

It was unquestionably time for Mullens to go, but he sure seemed a lot smarter with Matt, Austin, and Kalif.   :rolleyes:

Kind of.  A lot of our offense was “hand the ball to Kalif on first down,  give it to Matt if you need two yards, and send Austin on the fly three times a game”.

Matt wasn’t a gifted passer, he just had arm strength.  Klugh throws inaccurate  slow balls, where Johnson threw inaccurate fastballs.
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jdub49er

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Reply #17 on: December 27, 2017, 04:08:21 pm
Sure Mullens looked smarter the 1st 2 years given the competition.  There were times in year 3 and 4 where he lost games by not riding our strength (Kaliff).  He passed us out of a few games while running that hurry up.  He also didn't play Matt enough in year 3 when it seemed Matt was still our best option.  There were times where Matt and the receivers couldn't be covered on the deep routes and he went away from that.  UTSA in year 3 comes to mind.-----------Glad to see the change and looking forward to seeing what Montgomery can do with all the QB's.  Hopefully Klugh is forced to win the job.


Tintin

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Reply #18 on: December 28, 2017, 12:44:55 am
Sure Mullens looked smarter the 1st 2 years given the competition.  There were times in year 3 and 4 where he lost games by not riding our strength (Kaliff).  He passed us out of a few games while running that hurry up.  He also didn't play Matt enough in year 3 when it seemed Matt was still our best option.  There were times where Matt and the receivers couldn't be covered on the deep routes and he went away from that.  UTSA in year 3 comes to mind.-----------Glad to see the change and looking forward to seeing what Montgomery can do with all the QB's.  Hopefully Klugh is forced to win the job.


To defend Mullens on USTA in year three.  We had a b/s offensive touchdown in the fourth quarter (bostick?) called back and an interception (Covington?) missed (also in the fourth quarter).  Either of those plays get called right and we win. 


Where we hung ourself, was the fake fg call to end the first half.

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metro

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Reply #19 on: December 28, 2017, 05:56:37 am
You can wrap up this entire thread Into one point- Brad "no other offers" Lambert sucks out loud.  His brand is nonexistent with recruits, he has hired terrible #family coordinators where only success was vs d3 teams, now we have hit the oh shiz button (with AD blessing) and taking risks on juco kids and hired a decent coordinator it appears. 

There isn't a blueprint.  No system.  No process lol.  Just react

 
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 06:04:58 am by punchdrunk »


919R

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Reply #20 on: December 29, 2017, 09:24:23 pm
Sure Mullens looked smarter the 1st 2 years given the competition.  There were times in year 3 and 4 where he lost games by not riding our strength (Kaliff).  He passed us out of a few games while running that hurry up.  He also didn't play Matt enough in year 3 when it seemed Matt was still our best option.  There were times where Matt and the receivers couldn't be covered on the deep routes and he went away from that.  UTSA in year 3 comes to mind.-----------Glad to see the change and looking forward to seeing what Montgomery can do with all the QB's.  Hopefully Klugh is forced to win the job.


To defend Mullens on USTA in year three.  We had a b/s offensive touchdown in the fourth quarter (bostick?) called back and an interception (Covington?) missed (also in the fourth quarter).  Either of those plays get called right and we win. 


Where we hung ourself, was the fake fg call to end the first half.
.   This!!! That utsa game is still one of our two losses that make me the maddest. UTSA and ODU the first year of FBS. We gave the odu game away, the refs took the utsa game from us.                   Pet peeve alert: the man's last name was Mullen (not MullenS).


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