Author Topic: If you want Football at Charlotte READ THIS!!!  (Read 171977 times)

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Jimmyhat49er

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on: April 13, 2006, 11:42:52 am
I have come into possession of this top secret internal memo on what it would take to make Football happen at Charlotte read and then respond to my proposal below:


Football at UNC Charlotte ?

Where does this leave us?

Beyond the one-time facility costs (which are substantial), the cost to add football and a proportional amount of opportunities for
women would cost between $7.1 million and $8.1 million per year.  While there could be more corporate/donor support than suggested,
it is unrealistic to anticipate a huge push by the business community for college football in Charlotte (as evidenced by the relative lack of
discussion in the media and among business leaders).  Corporations, in tight economic times, traditionally limit any area deemed "not essential" to their
business mission.  UNC Charlotte football would seem to fit that bill.  Private donations work a little differently, but usually require an affinity
on the part of the donor to a particular cause.  Since a UNC Charlotte football program has not existed, it would be unlikely for the average college
football fan to shift allegiances to a new program that would likely be unsuccessful on the field initially.  This impacts ticket buyers who
might support the program occasionally, but traditionally won't buy into the program with their hearts.

Using the financial estimates in this package, UNC Charlotte students/administration would need to fund an additional $2.3 to $3.3 million
dollars per year in order for the University to compete at the average level of a Conference USA school.  For the purposes of this group -- If the
additional costs were passed along to the student population, it would cost between $143 and $206 per student per year, in addition to the $85
referenced earlier ($228-$291 total).  Whether the students would be receptive to this or not is something that would need serious evaluation.

What is the next step?

It is no secret that if football is to become a reality at UNC Charlotte, students must take the lead.  The corporate business community is
is not currently pushing for the formation of a program.  The push must be student initiated and must take in consideration the issues stated
in this packet.  A mere "we want football" or "it would be great" polling of the student body will not get the ball rolling.  Students need to develop
a realistic business plan to make it happen.  Much of the burden, financially, will more than likely have to fall on the student body.  Division I football
at many schools is a resource-draining proposition.  In 1998-99, eight of the top 25 finishers in the Sears Directors Cup (overall athletic excellence
as determined by national championship tournament finishes), LOST money.  Included in these eight were Michigan, Wisconsin, Florida and Georgia.
Being "big-time" comes with a cost.  If the students, alumni and friends of the University are willing to make the financial commitment to
adding football AND keeping the University in compliance with Title IX, the prospects of football at UNC Charlotte are favorable.


  (The information in this packet was prepared by Darin Spease, Sr.Assoc AD/Business, and is the result of budget surveys, estimates, and knowledge of
    the operations of a Division I-A athletic program.  This information was compiled to educate the student leaders of UNC Charlotte on the obstacles
    obstacles and costs that the University would reasonably face in undertaking the addition of Division I-A football.  It is not designed to be a
    blueprint for the formulation of a program.)


So basically this all starts with us and here is my proposal:  I am going to start a list of Football supporters and contributors.  I will compile this list until I have 1000 names and then I will submit it to the administration.  This is what I need from all of you:

1. PM or email me your Name and contact info, year of graduation, How much money would you contribute to the initial start up, How much would you give yearly and would you buy season tickets.

2. I need each of you to reach beyond this message board and give me a list of at list 5 people you graduated or attend school with the info I asked for in #1.

We have about 200 active posters here who are hard core 49er fans, if all of us reach out and get 5 people to comit to this we have our 1000 people.

Pledge as much as you can realistically expect to contribute.  For example I am Pledging $500 for start up and $250 a year and I would buy season tickets.

This will allow us and the administration to see how serious we are about football.  If no one signs up then we know this will probably never happen in our lifetime, but if we really want this as much as we say this will go a long way to proving it and actually doing something to make it happen.

Time for all of us to put our money where our mouth is.  I think the website is a great idea and this can go hand in hand with it (weekly update of pledges and so forth) but I really think this is the only way to find out how serious we are.

I look forward to you response and I can be emailed at
jimmyhat32@yahoo.com
« Last Edit: April 13, 2006, 02:19:04 pm by Jimmyhat49er »
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HP49er

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Reply #1 on: April 13, 2006, 11:55:13 am
Hope you have to get a new mailbox Jimmy.  We'll now see if it is really there.
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Jimmyhat49er

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Reply #2 on: April 13, 2006, 12:02:13 pm
Here is another portion of the top secret memo dealing with the costs involved:

Football at UNC Charlotte ?                  

What does a Division I football program cost to operate in a conference?                  
  (averages for Conference USA schools unless noted - 2002/2003)                  

Head Coach (salary/benefits):             $345,102       
Assistant Coaches (9) (s/b):             $786,743       
Scholarships (Charlotte):             $1,172,500       Based on 85 scholarships (57 in-state @ $10,500 / 28 out-of-state @ $20,500)
Team Travel:             $400,000       
Recruiting Travel:             $125,000       
Equipment Costs:             $150,000       
Officials:             $72,000       
Stadium Costs (Charlotte):             $375,000       Assumes BofA Stadium @ $75,000 per game x 5 games (assumption that it could be rented)
Guarantees:             $875,000       Assumes two non-conference @ $250,000 each / three conference games @ $125,000 each
Additional staffing (football-related):             $335,000       Assumes two FT trainers @ $60,000 each / one SID @ $45,000 / three secretarial support @ $30,000 each
                    / one FT Video Director @ $50,000 / one Asst Video Dir @ $30,000
Other operating expenses:             $150,000       Printing / maintenance / phones / mailings / computers / courtesy cars / video
Preseason costs:             $75,000       Housing / meals for two weeks prior to school opening for 85 student-athletes

Estimated Annual Cost for Football:             $4,861,345       

How would (could) the program be funded?                  
                  
Corporate/donor support?         Current economic conditions do not suggest that Division I football would be a priority for the corporate         
         business community in Charlotte.  Private sector investment in a football program, given an unstable stock market,         
         issues with US Airways and bank mergers (w/corresponding layoffs through consolidation) create uncertainty. That being         
         said, it might be reasonable to expect $750,000-$1 million in corporate (50%) / private donor support (50%).         
                  
Ticket buyers?         The average Conference USA school takes in a little over $2 million at the gate (greatly skewed by $5.95 million          
         at Louisville).  Take Louisville out of the picture and the C-USA average is $1.33 million.  Assuming         
         five home games, you would need about 20,000 paying customers @ $13.00+ to hit goal.         
         
Game Guarantees?         Assuming three conference road games @ $125,000, and two "buy" games at $350,000 each,
         you could generate $1.075 million.
         
Student fees?         Given the above, an additional $1,500,000 would need to be generated.  Given the projected student
         enrollment increases, it would take about $87 per student in additional student athletic fees to fund the football
         portion of the equation. Keep in mind that this is based on performing at the above levels (no guarantee that $1.33  
         million in tickets, etc. would be realized).  Also, BofA Stadium could be off limits (privately owned).
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Jimmyhat49er

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Reply #3 on: April 13, 2006, 12:04:56 pm
And yet another part of the document:

Football at UNC Charlotte ?                           

What are we leaving out?                           

Playing / practice facility                        Costs:     Unknown ($25-75 million?) - one-time

Unlike many Conference USA teams, we do not have an existing on-campus facility OR municipal stadium that meets NCAA standards                           
of 30,000 permanent seats.  Memorial Stadium seats about 22,000 people.  BofA Stadium has the capacity, but is privately owned.  Would                           
the Panthers, either from a competitive or field concern standpoint, share this facility at some cost to UNC Charlotte?                           

Office Space / Training Room expansion / Weight Room expansion                        Costs:   Unknown ($5-7 million?) - one-time

Adding a Division I football program is like adding an additional four/five sports.  Housing 10 coaches, film staff, secretarial support, training staff,                            
academic support, locker rooms, meeting space, etc. would require a facility roughly the size of the current SAC expansion.                            

Academic Support Staff / Strength Center Staff / Adminstrative Support                        Costs:    $300,000    annual

Unlike the positions noted in the "football expenses", which would work exclusively with the football program, there are positions which                              
would need to be hired because of the additional infrastructure demands of adding additional student-athletes.  These positions would                              
not work exclusively with the football program, but would be needed to maintain the current level of service to the existing programs AND the                              
new football program.                              

Academic Counselor (2)          $40,000    each w/benefits                  
Asst. Strength Coach (2)          $35,000    each w/benefits                  
Asst. AD/Operations          $50,000    w/benefits                  
Asst. Compliance Officer          $35,000    w/benefits                  
Asst. Ticket Manager          $30,000    w/benefits                  
Asst. Marketing Director          $35,000    w/benefits                  

Gender Equity Concerns                        Costs:   $2-3 million annually   

The addition of 85 male student-athletes would need to be countered with the addition of about 100 female student-athletes in order to meet
the proportionality test.  UNC Charlotte currently sponsors eight women's sports, including the high participation sports of track and soccer.
Additional sports that might be evaluated are lacrosse, field hockey, golf, swimming/diving, crew, and rifle.  The potential barriers to adding
these sports are varied.  Outside of swimming and crew, the squad sizes for the above are rather small (15-20), thus making a small dent
in the 100 target.  Swimming requires an Olympic-sized pool that currently doesn't exist on campus.  Crew requires 2 1/2 miles of flat water,
something that might be difficult to attain given the high use of local lakes.  Adding any of these sports would require a commitment of
additional space on campus (except golf and crew).
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sf49er

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Reply #4 on: April 13, 2006, 12:10:15 pm
Who ever said start at Div One?

How much does little old Pembroke spend???????/


HP49er

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Reply #5 on: April 13, 2006, 12:22:12 pm
Quote from: sf49er;168151
Who ever said start at Div One?

How much does little old Pembroke spend???????/


For the gazillionth time... you must compete at the NCAA level you currently participate in for other sports.  There is no startup in Division II or III and move up later.  It is Division I-AA, Division I-A or nothing at all.
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forDniners

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Reply #6 on: April 13, 2006, 12:22:30 pm
Quote from: sf49er;168151
Who ever said start at Div One?

How much does little old Pembroke spend???????/


The chancellor did. There was a write-up in the Observer several months back (sorry, don't have the link).

I'd be interested to see how much App State spends a year.
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sf49er

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Reply #7 on: April 13, 2006, 12:32:17 pm
Geez get a life ...........Sorry did not know about div one ........


survivor45

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Reply #8 on: April 13, 2006, 12:37:48 pm
Hey Jimmy -
 
Conference USA is an appropriate conference for 1A and the research is most appreciated!  Any info on what the budget figures would be for A10 football?
 
The only 1AA program's budget I could find was Northern Iowa.  Expenses are in the $1.6 million range and revenue is in the $600k range.  Not self-sustaining, but I think the revenue was from attendance only.
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EE9er

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Reply #9 on: April 13, 2006, 12:48:49 pm
Quote from: Jimmyhat49er;168148

         
Student fees?         Given the above, an additional $1,500,000 would need to be generated.  Given the projected student
         enrollment increases, it would take about $87 per student in additional student athletic fees to fund the football
         portion of the equation. Keep in mind that this is based on performing at the above levels (no guarantee that $1.33  
         million in tickets, etc. would be realized).  Also, BofA Stadium could be off limits (privately owned).


Shoot bump it up to a 100 dollars extra per student, thats nothing,  Charlotte's tuition and fees are extremely low compared to the other universities in North Carolina, my sister goes to NC State right now and she has to pay 500 dollars on top of tuition for "fees" asking 100 dollars extra for football shouldn't be a problem.
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casstommy

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Reply #10 on: April 13, 2006, 12:56:41 pm
Quote from: EE9er;168166
Shoot bump it up to a 100 dollars extra per student, thats nothing,  Charlotte's tuition and fees are extremely low compared to the other universities in North Carolina, my sister goes to NC State right now and she has to pay 500 dollars on top of tuition for "fees" asking 100 dollars extra for football shouldn't be a problem.



I thought the same exact thing.....100 dollars extra is a drop in the bucket.


JoeSixPack

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Reply #11 on: April 13, 2006, 12:59:07 pm
Quote from: Jimmyhat49er;168145
Beyond the one-time facility costs (which are substantial)


AS SOON AS a viable plan is created to address facility costs,  I PROMISE to be a greater Charlotte 49ers football proponent than anyone has ever seen.

Will something like this website ya'll are creating help promote 49ers football......sure, I don't think it will hurt at all.  

But IMO at this time, the facility issue is a huge roadblock that won't be addressed accurately by individual fans making contributions.  You may FINALLY get the attention of someone like a Robert Niblock (who could afford the cost of the facility)..........but whoever it is, it won't be cheap...even for D-1AA.


donkeyjaws

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Reply #12 on: April 13, 2006, 01:00:51 pm
bump this thread



Jimmyhat49er

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Reply #13 on: April 13, 2006, 02:01:12 pm
Here's what we have so far:

11 people signed up

$5,700 in initial donations

$2000 in yearly donations

32 Season tickets sold

It's a good start folks, keep it coming!!!

Keep in mind if you are interested or concerned with keeping you an anonimity on the message board, just send me a email with your real name and I have no idea what your scene name is.
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survivor45

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Reply #14 on: April 13, 2006, 02:03:48 pm
Quote from: SilvioDante;168172
But IMO at this time, the facility issue is a huge roadblock that won't be addressed accurately by individual fans making contributions. You may FINALLY get the attention of someone like a Robert Niblock (who could afford the cost of the facility)..........but whoever it is, it won't be cheap...even for D-1AA.

You are 100% right about the facilities being the #1 roadblock.  
 
On the D-1AA level could we make do with what we have?  A home opener vs. Dayton would put a lot of butts in the seats and would warrant the larger stadiums Jimmyhat discussed.  But couldn't the Mars Hill College vs. Charlotte games be played on campus?
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Over40NINER

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Reply #15 on: April 13, 2006, 02:03:50 pm
I like this, but I have 2 questioins.

Could our games not be played in the old run down Memorial Stadium at first?  I think it meets D-1 seating capacity requirements.  

We need to take into account that the yearly amount pledged only toward football will probably cut into the money given to the general athletic foundation.  (If Mr XYZ currently gives $500 a year to the 49er Club and then pledges $500 a year to football, there is a chance he may lower his regular 49er Club gift to only $200, giving him a total of $700).
This post was sponsored by Over40NINER......... the NNN 2009 POY.


Jimmyhat49er

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Reply #16 on: April 13, 2006, 02:06:54 pm
Quote from: Over40NINER;168186
I like this, but I have 2 questioins.

Could our games not be played in the old run down Memorial Stadium at first?  I think it meets D-1 seating capacity requirements?  

We need to take into account that the yearly amount pledged only toward football will probably cut into the money given to the general athletic foundation.  (If Mr XYZ currently gives $500 a year to the 49er Club and then pledges $500 a year to football, there is a chance he may only lower his regular 49er Club gift to $200, givint him a total of $700).

 
They plan from this secret document is for games to be played at Panther Stadium until a on campus facitilty is built.

As far as donations I am asking for football ONLY.  This would be above and beyond what you give normally.
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LeftyNiner

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Reply #17 on: April 13, 2006, 02:39:55 pm
Why are you calling this a secret document.  Wasn't it published in the school paper or somewhere?  I know I've seen it before.


Jimmyhat49er

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Reply #18 on: April 13, 2006, 02:44:40 pm
Quote from: LeftyNiner;168194
Why are you calling this a secret document.  Wasn't it published in the school paper or somewhere?  I know I've seen it before.

 

It was given to the SGA and may have been published.... But is sure seems more important if I call it a "secret document".   Play along please.
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CMack124

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Reply #19 on: April 13, 2006, 02:54:32 pm
Quote from: Jimmyhat49er;168196
But is sure seems more important if I call it a "secret document"


It really does, I tripled my pledge amount just because he used the word 'secret' so often in his posts.

I tried taking this to Facebook, a 49er Football Advocates group on there has over 1,500 members, if 1/10 of them would pledge $50 and season tickets, that would be nice.  But all I could figure out how to do was post on the message board of the group which I don't think anybody actually reads.  So anybody who knows how to mass-message people or something, go for it.  Facebook is the easiest way to get the current students attention.


X-49er

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Reply #20 on: April 13, 2006, 02:59:46 pm
Quote from: forDniner;168153
The chancellor did. There was a write-up in the Observer several months back (sorry, don't have the link).


from the Observer, December 22, 2005

Quote
Dubois isn't interested in I-AA football, at which Charlotte might fit in the A-10 or the Southern or Big South conferences.

"I frankly don't think I-AA is worth doing," he said. "You can't play on the soccer field, so you still have to build a smaller stadium. But it gets no attention. In a city like Charlotte, would that be attractive to anyone?"


Observer: 49ers still punting on football



The Chancellor seems to want to move up as soon as the NCAA will allow, which could be an economic problem for us.  Also, it inhibits our chances of starting a program if that's the only way we will get his support (i.e. we definitely don't have the funding to play DI right now).  The dollars aren't there now to make the quick jump to DI in the minimum time, either.  I think we could make something work if we stay I-AA for 10 years (+/- 3) or so until we establish the program, create an I-AA winner, and gain support from fellow alums and community members.
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Roasty

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Reply #21 on: April 13, 2006, 03:00:18 pm
How about chill out on this until we get a website up. I have a feeling that until then, people won't take it as seriously.


Jimmyhat49er

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Reply #22 on: April 13, 2006, 03:15:32 pm
Quote from: Roasty;168201
How about chill out on this until we get a website up. I have a feeling that until then, people won't take it as seriously.

 
 From the response I'm getting people are taking it seriously and I would rather not wait since I've been wait for 20 years now and nothing has happened.

Once we get the site up, we'll work hand in hand, but I see no reason to wait.
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survivor45

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Reply #23 on: April 13, 2006, 03:17:05 pm
from the Observer, December 22, 2005

Quote:
Dubois isn't interested in I-AA football, at which Charlotte might fit in the A-10 or the Southern or Big South conferences.

"I frankly don't think I-AA is worth doing," he said. "You can't play on the soccer field, so you still have to build a smaller stadium. But it gets no attention. In a city like Charlotte, would that be attractive to anyone?"

 
I have to completely disagree with the Chancellor on this.  
 
When we joined the A-10, I told quite a few people that the move could be a golden opportunity to start a football program.  I thought starting at C-USA's level would prove to be more difficult.
 
He says the soccer field is impossible but does not say why.  There are 3 teams that are in the A-10 for football and basketball:  UMass, Rhode Island, and Richmond (Richmond could be a nice rivalry).  Look at their home attendance from the 2005 season:
 
UMass
vs. Albany 10177
vs Rhode Island 15314
vs Northeastern 4257
vs James Madison 4476
vs New Hampshire 12539
 
Rhode Island
vs Fordham 1867
vs William & Mary 3303
vs Towson 2508
vs Hofstra 3987
vs Northeastern 2570
 
Richmond
vs UMass 6040
vs 'Nova 3508
vs Delaware 3115
vs Hofstra 4385
vs VMI 9853
vs William & Mary 8960
vs Furman 6603
 
Quite a variety - UMass can get 15k fans, Rhode Island never got 4k fans, and Richmond averaged about 4-5k fans.
 
The soccer/track&field facility can seat about 4000 people.  What's the problem?  If less than 4000 fans show up for football, there's no reason to build a small stadium.  If the problem is that the demand for watching a Charlotte football game exceeds 10000 per game, then is that a reason not to start a program?  A season with 4 home games on campus and 1 'bigger' home game in another venue sounds perfectly logical to me.
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austinniner

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Reply #24 on: April 13, 2006, 04:02:41 pm
Quote from: Jimmyhat49er;168150
And yet another part of the document:
 
 
 UNC Charlotte currently sponsors eight women's sports, including the high participation sports of track and soccer.  Additional sports that might be evaluated are lacrosse, field hockey, golf, swimming/diving, crew, and rifle. The potential barriers to adding these sports are varied. Outside of swimming and crew, the squad sizes for the above are rather small (15-20), thus making a small dent
in the 100 target. Swimming requires an Olympic-sized pool that currently doesn't exist on campus.

 
We used to have a swim team on campus.  The pool was in Belk gym.  Have requirements changed?
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