Author Topic: clt says this is problematic for the band  (Read 2370 times)

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BigTimeNiner

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Reply #25 on: November 14, 2017, 11:40:40 pm
I don't understand why they are allowed to do whatever  the hell they want.
Breaking formation and not following directions sounds like a very valid reason
to be cut.
Pretty simple.


Dowless

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Reply #26 on: November 15, 2017, 05:05:33 am
I don't understand why they are allowed to do whatever  the hell they want.
Breaking formation and not following directions sounds like a very valid reason
to be cut.
Pretty simple.

Because people are spineless.  Their biggest fears are a lawsuit or a bunch of kids protesting.  Last year I stopped showing up to the football games until after the band had played the anthem because 3 or 4 of them did it.  This year I didn't buy season tickets to either football or basketball.  They make it easy not to spend money on it when the teams suck and the band kneels.  It is not much money (about $1300), but they need all they can get from looking at the empty seats.


sportsman1417

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Reply #27 on: November 15, 2017, 06:30:41 am
Snowflakes


dmastinsc

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Reply #28 on: November 15, 2017, 07:37:13 am
Or, this band member may have given this a lot of thought and decided to kneel just like many others are doing, and whatever the repercussions are, they’d be fine with it.

You never know why anyone does anything, all you can do is make assumptions.  99% of the time you assume something about someone you don’t know in life, you’re wrong.

I don’t have to agree with this person kneeling, nor do I have to disparage them for doing so. They may have a reason that means something to them. It doesn’t have to mean anything to me.


49r9r

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Reply #29 on: November 15, 2017, 07:48:30 am
They are using freedom of speech as the excuse to protest the flag that is symbolic of Freedom Of Speech, as well as other freedoms.  Sadly, I doubt most of them have given this much thought.  They just do what their "leaders" tell them to do.
Charlotte 49er Campus Beer Drinking Contest Runner Up 1974, 1975, 1976


ghostofclt

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Reply #30 on: November 15, 2017, 07:51:24 am
I don't understand why they are allowed to do whatever  the hell they want.
Breaking formation and not following directions sounds like a very valid reason
to be cut.
Pretty simple.

clt thinks you have it. If this person is not performing, find someone else. Stay in formation, jabroni.

#notpolitical


sportsman1417

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Reply #31 on: November 15, 2017, 07:52:31 am
They are using freedom of speech as the excuse to protest the flag that is symbolic of Freedom Of Speech, as well as other freedoms.  Sadly, I doubt most of them have given this much thought.  They just do what their "leaders" tell them to do.
It has been mentioned 1000 times it has nothing to do with the anthem or flag.


NinerWupAss

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Reply #32 on: November 15, 2017, 08:40:06 am
They are using freedom of speech as the excuse to protest the flag that is symbolic of Freedom Of Speech, as well as other freedoms.  Sadly, I doubt most of them have given this much thought.  They just do what their "leaders" tell them to do.
It has been mentioned 1000 times it has nothing to do with the anthem or flag.


What makes these disagreements over flags and statues and anthems difficult is that symbols are personal and mean different things to different people.  One side can say it isn't about _____ but for someone else it is about that because that is what the symbol means to them personally. 


A man can say the confederate flag doesn't represent slavery all day long and to HIM it may not, but to others it is what it represents.  Taking a knee during the anthem may mean one thing to one person and something else to another and no matter how many times people explain their motives or thoughts around the symbol it doesn't mean that the symbol will stop meaning something different to someone else. 


Neither side is wrong and neither side is right because it is just a personal connection to a symbol. 

Mahna Mahna


ImfromClayton

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Reply #33 on: November 15, 2017, 09:37:08 am
I don't understand why they are allowed to do whatever  the hell they want.
Breaking formation and not following directions sounds like a very valid reason
to be cut.
Pretty simple.

Because people are spineless.  Their biggest fears are a lawsuit or a bunch of kids protesting.  Last year I stopped showing up to the football games until after the band had played the anthem because 3 or 4 of them did it.  This year I didn't buy season tickets to either football or basketball.  They make it easy not to spend money on it when the teams suck and the band kneels.  It is not much money (about $1300), but they need all they can get from looking at the empty seats.

I'm not sure what you are protesting.  They don't want our money.  They have student fees. 

If you are letting an 18 year old kid with a trombone make financial decisions for you that has nothing to do with our AD or the game on the field, I'd say that's pretty irrational.  At least the people boycotting the NFL are doing so over the player's decisions.  If you aren't buying tickets because we suck at football, I'd say that's a solid decision.  Don't pin Judy's shortcomings on the band.

Disclaimer: This post has nothing to do with my politics, I just hate Judy Rose.
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NinerWupAss

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Reply #34 on: November 15, 2017, 10:13:34 am

Disclaimer: This post has nothing to do with my politics, I just hate Judy Rose.


DILLY! DILLY!
Mahna Mahna


49r9r

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Reply #35 on: November 15, 2017, 11:16:12 am
They are using freedom of speech as the excuse to protest the flag that is symbolic of Freedom Of Speech, as well as other freedoms.  Sadly, I doubt most of them have given this much thought.  They just do what their "leaders" tell them to do.
It has been mentioned 1000 times it has nothing to do with the anthem or flag.

Bullshit.  WHO said that?  OJ said he was innocent too.  I doubt half of those protesting have s clear cut idea of what they are protesting. 
Charlotte 49er Campus Beer Drinking Contest Runner Up 1974, 1975, 1976


rt1923

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Reply #36 on: November 15, 2017, 11:51:56 am
New to the board (well, registered user, anyway) so at the risk of getting run off, I have a few thoughts on this topic that I hope are worth your time.

First, it is worthwhile to consider that the adverse reaction by many to the method of protest is, at some level, an indication that the protest is working.  Protests are meant to make people on the other side of the issue feel uncomfortable.  If a protest is universally (or majority) accepted or praised, it is probably not an effective protest.  Throughout history, particularly with regard to protests about racial equality, the protests themselves were not "popular" or "encouraged" by the majority of observers.  MLK's various marches were not "popular" at the time, and still are not popular among various segments.  Same could be said for the Stonewall Riots.  Or Vietnam War protests (which got several students killed and maimed at Kent State).  Or the lunch counter sit ins or bus boycotts or desegration of public schools.  Or the Occupy movement (a populism wave that some would say contributed tangentially to the populist promises of election 2016 candidates across both sides of the spectrum). The list goes on.  So the fact that people have a visceral reaction to seeing someone kneel during the Star Spangled Banner means that the protest is at least effective in bringing light to the protest itself.  The issues to be addressed by the protests can only be addressed if the protest itself gains attention.

Second, of the various ways in which one could go about protesting issues of racial inequality or excessive use of police force, one should consider that the protest of kneeling during the Star Spangled Banner is peaceful, by nature.  No one is physically harmed by the act.  This is in stark contrast to rioting, looting, and tinderbox style street protests like what occurred in Charlotte, Ferguson, Baltimore, etc. after people of color were killed by police use of force (justified or not).  If the idea of kneeling during the anthem offends you, and I'm not judging that taking of offense at all, please all consider the alternatives to that style of issue-based awareness, and ask yourself if you would rather someone non-violently protest by taking a knee or incite riotous behavior in the streets.  I'd submit that one method is much preferred over the other.

Third, specific to the band protesting, this really does get into messy legal issues due to First Amendment protections.  Unlike the NFL, which is a privately held and governed organization, the University is a State (ie government) run institution.  The First Amendment quite arguably would be violated if the band member were told by a state-run institution that he or she could not peacefully protest in such a manner.  I'm not a legal expert but I think at the very least its a close question.

Finally, as many have said, just as it is one's right to protest in a peaceful manner by kneeling, it is also one's right to object to the protest in any number of other peaceful manners.  However, I would suggest that rather than jump to conclusions or insinuations about why someone is or is not (or worse, doesn't know why one is protesting but is just doing it because it's fashionable or someone told that person to do so), I'd argue that if you are offended by that band member's protest, it would be worthwhile to approach that band member and strike up a calm, deliberate conversation about his or her choice to protest.  Listen to the rationale, express your opposing view point, and maybe both sides would learn something about the other that they did not previously understand or appreciate.  To simply say "your reason for protesting is bullshit and you don't even know why you are protesting" without having that conversation first does not make any meaningful progress towards resolving whatever underlying issues or passions both sides possess that leads to a butting of heads in the first place.

I hope this comes across as reasonable food for thought.


919R

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Reply #37 on: November 15, 2017, 12:57:37 pm
They are using freedom of speech as the excuse to protest the flag that is symbolic of Freedom Of Speech, as well as other freedoms.  Sadly, I doubt most of them have given this much thought.  They just do what their "leaders" tell them to do.


Exactly.


919R

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Reply #38 on: November 15, 2017, 12:59:24 pm
They are using freedom of speech as the excuse to protest the flag that is symbolic of Freedom Of Speech, as well as other freedoms.  Sadly, I doubt most of them have given this much thought.  They just do what their "leaders" tell them to do.
It has been mentioned 1000 times it has nothing to do with the anthem or flag.

Bullshit.  WHO said that?  OJ said he was innocent too.  I doubt half of those protesting have s clear cut idea of what they are protesting.
Exactly again.


chidave

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Reply #39 on: November 15, 2017, 01:22:14 pm
If the goal is to produce an adverse reaction, then yes kneeling is accomplishing their goals to perfection. I wouldn't use the word "offended" to describe my reaction, it's disappointment. I would hope that on a day when we are celebrating our military personnel and veteran's sacrifices that we could at least all stand together and show them respect.

It is even more ironic that the band will be traveling to Normandy in celebration of the veterans who fought under that flag against one of the more brutal racist regimes in the history of the world. Thousands died in France, yet we can't stand for 60 seconds for them.

If it is not about the flag or the anthem, or the military, then the protests would not be taking place during it on Veterans Day. If you are protesting the actions of a police force (which is not nationalized like it is in Cuba or was in the USSR or Germany) there are much more effective ways to get your point across.

College students are ignorant, we all were. That's why we attend college, to learn. It would have been nice if the leaders of band could taught the 2-3 people that kneeled that Veteran's Day probably isn't the best time to do that. However in today's political environment getting anyone to see through the other side's eyes is a difficult lesson to teach.



« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 01:24:46 pm by chidave »


Dowless

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Reply #40 on: November 15, 2017, 02:33:39 pm
It saddens me that this country has reached where it is.  It seems everyone is against everyone.  I grew up with black people, white people, and brown people if you want to call them that.  My first semester at UNCC was on the international floor in what used to be Poplar Hall.  I had a roommate from South Korea and another from Bahrain. My RA was from Turkey, and my best friends were from the Dominican Republic.

In my professional life I lived in Asia for almost a year (mostly Taiwan, but visited Japan and Singapore).  I have also spent time in Europe and worked with Belgians and Germans very closely.  I have had discussions with folks about everything that people from other countries consider to be a problem in the US, the biggest being guns from their point of view.  The one thing that people outside the US do not believe is that we have a race issue.  Our country is great because we have a diverse population that is together for one common purpose, and that is to prosper in the greatest country on earth. 

When people protest during a symbol of this country I feel like the message is lost.  It doesn't cause us to come together and discuss our issues.  It creates a divide in the one thing that brings us all together.  There are hundreds of peaceful ways to protest issues.  Why choose the one that creates barriers when we need to knock them down?  Instead of taking a knee organize a town hall discussion.  Organize a campus march.  Instead of tearing this country down, bring it together.  Until you leave this country for longer than vacation, it is hard to know just how great it is.  This is my issue.


sportsman1417

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Reply #41 on: November 15, 2017, 02:41:23 pm
They are using freedom of speech as the excuse to protest the flag that is symbolic of Freedom Of Speech, as well as other freedoms.  Sadly, I doubt most of them have given this much thought.  They just do what their "leaders" tell them to do.
It has been mentioned 1000 times it has nothing to do with the anthem or flag.

Bullshit.  WHO said that?  OJ said he was innocent too.  I doubt half of those protesting have s clear cut idea of what they are protesting.
Exactly again.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html

It's important to remember these players were in SF where there was a huge police scandal about racism when this all started.


ghostofclt

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Reply #42 on: November 15, 2017, 04:04:33 pm
clt says we need more conversations, and less protest.


Nugget

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Reply #43 on: November 15, 2017, 04:51:50 pm
Yes there was one band member that kneeled.  Right after the announcer talked about it being military appreciation Day.  There were several veterans in my section who were greatly offended and I know several have contacted the school.  This same member has kneeled all year.  I was told by one person that the school has said its his first amendment and they wouldn't do anything about it.
I believe it may be protected by the First Amendment because it is a government owned university.  The First Amendment DOES NOT protect you from the NFL firing you for this, but UNC Charlotte, perhaps so.

I assume this person is following the lead of the NFL players and believes our flag stands for police brutality and racial inequality.  I think it stands for freedom and opportunity.  I am not suggesting that police brutality and racial inequality do not occur, but I firmly believe that that is not what America stands for.  If I believed what this person believes, my convictions would not allow me to live here.  I guess their convictions are fungible when they are not in front of a crowd.
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rt1923

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Reply #44 on: November 15, 2017, 05:16:33 pm
It is easy for me, white male aged 38, and other similarly situated white, college educated, middle class+ males to say that America stands for one thing based on life experiences.  My life experiences are vastly different from a person of color, who will likely have a different view of what it means to be an American. Both are mutually exclusive and neither person's perspective is wrong.


Alumni93

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Reply #45 on: November 15, 2017, 10:52:38 pm
It all comes down to respect to me.  This same person in the band has kneeled all season.  However in this case, we are saying its military appreciation day.  The announcer has asked veterans to stand so we can salute them and then kneeling at the anthem was disrespectful to them. 

The protest didn't make anyone feel uncomfortable but it did cause outrage and disappointment especially with it being military appreciation day.

Now we say it's a first amendment issue because we are a state school.  East Carolina addressed it with their bad after they kneeled when donors threatened to pull funding and boom the university addressed it.

If you're receiving any kind of money from the school then there are standards.  You can't tell me that it's against his civil rights for them to say, you're staying in the stands during pre game because you're kneeling


stonecoldken

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Reply #46 on: November 16, 2017, 12:13:12 pm
rt1923 caught white guilt.
CHP sold out.  I declare Nick McEntyre our Chancellor-In-Exile!

JFelt quote about CHP.  "Stake your claim.  As long as UNC-CH doesn't want it first."

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rt1923

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Reply #47 on: November 16, 2017, 12:41:44 pm
rt1923 caught white guilt.

That's pathetic.  I have zero guilt about my set of circumstances.  I was born into a middle class white family and had no control over that.  I'm also not so myopic as to think that other white families have issues getting ahead just like families of color.  Being born in America does not automatically mean being born into a free ride.  Regardless of your skin color.  Do you have anything of substance to add?


49r9r

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Reply #48 on: November 16, 2017, 02:05:09 pm
Being born in America does not automatically mean being born into a free ride. 

Damn straight.  Everyone needs to work for a living and earn their keep.

Charlotte 49er Campus Beer Drinking Contest Runner Up 1974, 1975, 1976


ImfromClayton

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Reply #49 on: November 16, 2017, 05:53:47 pm
It all comes down to respect to me.  This same person in the band has kneeled all season.  However in this case, we are saying its military appreciation day.  The announcer has asked veterans to stand so we can salute them and then kneeling at the anthem was disrespectful to them. 

The protest didn't make anyone feel uncomfortable but it did cause outrage and disappointment especially with it being military appreciation day.

Now we say it's a first amendment issue because we are a state school.  East Carolina addressed it with their bad after they kneeled when donors threatened to pull funding and boom the university addressed it.

If you're receiving any kind of money from the school then there are standards.  You can't tell me that it's against his civil rights for them to say, you're staying in the stands during pre game because you're kneeling

Thank god for student fees
#bus1


 

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