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Offline Chisox17

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Offline HighFlying49er

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2011, 12:14:48 pm »
You gotta read the grand jury's report (first link in the story Chisox linked too).  It's pretty graphic and very disgusting.  After reading it, I realized just how much the media has been glossing over... its a pretty repulsive series of events.  I agree.. its only a matter of time before Joe's gone too.  If nothing else, I bet he "retires" this year. 

As angry as I get over Sandusky's actions, I'm pretty pissed about the "do nothing" approach that the other officials took too...  If this had happened to either of my sons, I'd be reading this message board from a jail cell and someone would be pushing daisies.

Offline casstommy

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2011, 12:51:17 pm »
I like how the detective that interviewed Sandusky in 99 concerning showering with kids was basically like "please dont take showers with 8 yr olds anymore plzkthx"  WTF?
 
And I'm a little confused with how the grad assistant who saw him having sex with the child in the shower reacted too.  Seems like the normal response to seeing a man violating a child would be to run over and take his head off.  Not go and talk to your dad about it. 
 
 

Offline NLP49

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2011, 01:19:41 pm »
The sad thing is that the people who would do the firing need to be fired too.  This has go to the level of whatever the board of trustees is.  Everyone who knew didn't act and they need to go.  I don't remember how the hierarchy there goes but essentially everyone from PSU President Graham Spanier down to Paterno needs to resign or be fired.
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Offline NinerAdvocate

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2011, 02:29:12 pm »
Why protect this guy? Usually a cover up is over some star that could make the school a ton of money, or froma  massive black eye.
 
This could have been privately dealt with, with minimal fanfare and Paterno and the AD etc distancing themselves as far as possible from this sicko. Instead, they covered it up - because theyw ere friends with him? If not, then why? It's not like PSU couldn't quickly find and hire a worthy replacement.
 
The behavior by senior level folks there is just baffling. The other obvious thing is that they knew Sandusky had issues. Too many occurrences to be able to be dismissive about any one incident.
 
This is so much worse than the impermissible benefits crap. Such a shame to see a HOF coach allow his legacy to be smeared by such bad judgment. He's a coach, a father figure. His first priority should be to protect kids from despicable acts like this. Any real man would.
 
I really hope Sandusky gets everything that's coming to him. And BTW, because I betcha it'll come out. I'm laying very strong odds that Sandusky was abused by his father/uncle/teacher as well. That's absolutely no excuse. It just shows how important it is to break the chain of abuse - another reason that this never ever should have been swept under the rug.

Offline 9erken

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2011, 02:46:15 pm »
Maybe they thought they could get away with the coverup? Disgusting response from the people informed about what was happening, but they did manage to cover up the 2002 incident for 9 years and the earlier internal review from 1999 for 12 years! I can't believe someone didn't leak that stuff to the press, but it must have been only a few people that knew about it.

Offline Mullins Maniac

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2011, 02:56:29 pm »
Maybe they thought they could get away with the coverup? Disgusting response from the people informed about what was happening, but they did manage to cover up the 2002 incident for 9 years and the earlier internal review from 1999 for 12 years! I can't believe someone didn't leak that stuff to the press, but it must have been only a few people that knew about it.

How much do you lay on the graduate assistant who reported the the incident in 2002, Mike McQueary? He is currently the receivers coach at Penn State. No obligaton to follow up on what you saw which was very disturbing?
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Offline 49r9r

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2011, 05:45:35 pm »
A good friend of mine who attended PSU told me he is a little surprised Paterno has thus far escaped much scrutiny so far.


Offline 49or bust

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2011, 06:31:13 pm »
The sad thing is that the people who would do the firing need to be fired too.  This has go to the level of whatever the board of trustees is.  Everyone who knew didn't act and they need to go.  I don't remember how the hierarchy there goes but essentially everyone from PSU President Graham Spanier down to Paterno needs to resign or be fired.
I'm not questioning the coach's guilt, but I'm not sure the testimony makes it clear that the PSU President knew. It sounds like there was a breakdown in communication and it changed from a criminal act to "something possibly inappropriate" by the time it got to the higher ups. It does sound like Paterno and a lot of people did know full well and covered it up. They do need to be fired.

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Offline NLP49

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2011, 06:52:30 pm »
Breakdown in communication?  It should have been communicated directly to law enforcement and vigorously followed-up on.
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Offline Mullins Maniac

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2011, 07:00:26 pm »
The sad thing is that the people who would do the firing need to be fired too.  This has go to the level of whatever the board of trustees is.  Everyone who knew didn't act and they need to go.  I don't remember how the hierarchy there goes but essentially everyone from PSU President Graham Spanier down to Paterno needs to resign or be fired.
I'm not questioning the coach's guilt, but I'm not sure the testimony makes it clear that the PSU President knew. It sounds like there was a breakdown in communication and it changed from a criminal act to "something possibly inappropriate" by the time it got to the higher ups. It does sound like Paterno and a lot of people did know full well and covered it up. They do need to be fired.


Hey Mr President, someone saw Coach Sandusky naked in the shower with an 11 year old boy. They weren't doing anything criminal but they may hve been doing inappropriate things.


Thanks Mr. AD, how is the golf game?


I hope you are not a lawyer :).
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Offline X-49er

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2011, 07:21:40 pm »
I got as far as Page 3, and that was enough.  If Penn State officials don't get rid of everyone who knew about this and essentially did nothing, then the alums need to get involved to insure they get fired.  Sickening to read about, and even more disgusting to know that many knew that Sandusky was taking advantage of troubled kids and basically covered for him.

Check out the title of Sandusky's autobiography:



Sickening.
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Offline s9er

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2011, 07:25:20 pm »
I've never been a Penn State fan, but at the same time have had nothing but the highest levels of respect for the program, JoPa and their fans... But this makes me sick. They need to fire EVERYONE down to the lowest grad assistant and start from scratch.
 
This program just died and I don't think anyone realizes it yet. 
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Offline 49or bust

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2011, 08:15:51 pm »
Breakdown in communication?  It should have been communicated directly to law enforcement and vigorously followed-up on.
The people who knew are at fault for not taking this course. The testimony doesn't make it clear that the full information reached the top.

I'm not questioning the coach's guilt, but I'm not sure the testimony makes it clear that the PSU President knew. It sounds like there was a breakdown in communication and it changed from a criminal act to "something possibly inappropriate" by the time it got to the higher ups. It does sound like Paterno and a lot of people did know full well and covered it up. They do need to be fired.


Hey Mr President, someone saw Coach Sandusky naked in the shower with an 11 year old boy. They weren't doing anything criminal but they may hve been doing inappropriate things.


Thanks Mr. AD, how is the golf game?


I hope you are not a lawyer :) .
Once the message was relayed to the top, it wasn't what happened but "inappropriate conduct" termed as "horsing around." I'm not saying that is what the president was told, I'm saying that's what the testimony says.

I don't know what the laws are on those communal showers. I mean people are expected to be naked in there together. So if he got a story that nothing sexual was going on, does he have something to report to the police? The others involved clearly had something to report, but the testimony and grand jury report don't make it clear that the President did.

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Offline Mullins Maniac

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2011, 10:45:42 pm »
Breakdown in communication?  It should have been communicated directly to law enforcement and vigorously followed-up on.
The people who knew are at fault for not taking this course. The testimony doesn't make it clear that the full information reached the top.

I'm not questioning the coach's guilt, but I'm not sure the testimony makes it clear that the PSU President knew. It sounds like there was a breakdown in communication and it changed from a criminal act to "something possibly inappropriate" by the time it got to the higher ups. It does sound like Paterno and a lot of people did know full well and covered it up. They do need to be fired.


Hey Mr President, someone saw Coach Sandusky naked in the shower with an 11 year old boy. They weren't doing anything criminal but they may hve been doing inappropriate things.


Thanks Mr. AD, how is the golf game?


I hope you are not a lawyer :) .
Once the message was relayed to the top, it wasn't what happened but "inappropriate conduct" termed as "horsing around." I'm not saying that is what the president was told, I'm saying that's what the testimony says.

I don't know what the laws are on those communal showers. I mean people are expected to be naked in there together. So if he got a story that nothing sexual was going on, does he have something to report to the police? The others involved clearly had something to report, but the testimony and grand jury report don't make it clear that the President did.


He was in a shower, alone, naked, with an 11 year old boy at 9:30 pm. That alone is enough to report. I  dont care if they were reading the Bible.
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Offline 49or bust

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2011, 12:04:02 am »
He was in a shower, alone, naked, with an 11 year old boy at 9:30 pm. That alone is enough to report. I  dont care if they were reading the Bible.
I'm not talking about how I feel here, just to be clear. I'm talking from a investigation or trial sense. Does this guy have a valid defense.

It doesn't say that the time was relayed to the Pres, but I think it's of little consequence either way. Either its already report-worthy or it's not. You can find a way to rationalize 9:30pm if you can rationalize the other stuff.

So this Sandusky guy has a good reputation right? And a clean record as far as the Pres knows? If football people like Sandusky are all comfortable with communal showers, and, as far as the Pres knows, Sandusky is a saint, maybe it didn't seem like a red alert situation. Maybe Sandusky is just a father figure to the kid and it's all totally innocent. It's awkward to the majority for sure, but not everyone is the same way about nudity. However, it's not the kind of thing that is publically accepted so telling him to stop may have seemed acceptable.

When you are the leader of something and have the person's and your school's reputation at stake, you can't just accuse them without being quite sure it is valid. Because if this guy is respected, and you are wrong, and he was unjustly made part of a child sexual abuse investigation, there's going to be some serious trouble.

Anyways, I'm just debating cause I wouldn't be surprised to see the President and above get off. Probably would resign tho because this is a hard s*** storm to miss and he probably should have investigated further himself rather than trusting his subordinates.

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Offline NinerAdvocate

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2011, 06:01:40 am »
He was in a shower, alone, naked, with an 11 year old boy at 9:30 pm. That alone is enough to report. I  dont care if they were reading the Bible.
I'm not talking about how I feel here, just to be clear. I'm talking from a investigation or trial sense. Does this guy have a valid defense.

Bust, and I mean this in the most respectful way possible. What the flying f*** are you babbling about?
 
There's no gray area here. Naked. In Shower. With 11 year old. (who he happened to be anally raping).
 
There's no way you have ever been in a leadership/mangement position. You don't give him the benefit of the doubt. You don't write it off as horseplay. At the bare minimum, you immediately drag the witness and the accused in your office and get their stories, in detail, before deciding if the cops need to be called. And when you hear that this guy was in the shower, naked, with a kid, you immediately take the high road, report the incident to the authorities for them to investigate and place the individual on suspension, pending the results. You do not take his key away and write the whole thing off.
 
I know you like to take the opposing side for a good debate but this is not one to do that with. This is absolutely egregious, and S9er is absolutely right. The entire PSU AD and probably a few more folks are dead men walking.

Offline Mullins Maniac

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2011, 06:33:00 am »
He was in a shower, alone, naked, with an 11 year old boy at 9:30 pm. That alone is enough to report. I  dont care if they were reading the Bible.

So this Sandusky guy has a good reputation right? And a clean record as far as the Pres knows? If football people like Sandusky are all comfortable with communal showers, and, as far as the Pres knows, Sandusky is a saint, maybe it didn't seem like a red alert situation. Maybe Sandusky is just a father figure to the kid and it's all totally innocent. It's awkward to the majority for sure, but not everyone is the same way about nudity. However, it's not the kind of thing that is publically accepted so telling him to stop may have seemed acceptable.

When you are the leader of something and have the person's and your school's reputation at stake, you can't just accuse them without being quite sure it is valid. Because if this guy is respected, and you are wrong, and he was unjustly made part of a child sexual abuse investigation, there's going to be some serious trouble.


In 1998 allegations were brought against Sandusky for similiar actions. At that time he hd been at PSU 20 plus years and was the heir apparent to Joe Pa. He abruptly resigned in 1999. Coincedence? So know he was not clean and am sure the Pres was informed as to why the heir apparent resigned.


You have to remember that in 2002 Sandusky no longer worked for PSU.
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Offline Mullins Maniac

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2011, 07:49:57 am »

In 1998 allegations were brought against Sandusky for similiar actions. At that time he hd been at PSU 20 plus years and was the heir apparent to Joe Pa. He abruptly resigned in 1999. Coincedence? So know he was not clean and am sure the Pres was informed as to why the heir apparent resigned.


You have to remember that in 2002 Sandusky no longer worked for PSU.

Sorry for the typos above.
 
Forget the legal aspect of this, the moral void is disgusting and worthy of termination of all involved.
 
One last note, when the lawsuits begin (and they will) I believe few will be left standing. This will have the effect at PSU that the Patrick Dennehy scandal had at Baylor.
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Offline Mullins Maniac

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2011, 09:18:24 am »
Cory Giger, ESPN radio State College, reporting on Mike and Mike this morning that Sandusky was at a PSU football practice in 2007 with a young boy  >:( .
 
Heads should and will roll.
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Offline 49or bust

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2011, 09:44:32 am »
He was in a shower, alone, naked, with an 11 year old boy at 9:30 pm. That alone is enough to report. I  dont care if they were reading the Bible.
I'm not talking about how I feel here, just to be clear. I'm talking from a investigation or trial sense. Does this guy have a valid defense.

Bust, and I mean this in the most respectful way possible. What the flying f*** are you babbling about?
Yeaaa. Even I know I'm reaching lol.
 
Quote
There's no gray area here. Naked. In Shower. With 11 year old. (who he happened to be anally raping).
 
There's no way you have ever been in a leadership/mangement position.
I'm not saying that's how I would react to that.
Quote
You don't give him the benefit of the doubt. You don't write it off as horseplay. At the bare minimum, you immediately drag the witness and the accused in your office and get their stories, in detail, before deciding if the cops need to be called. And when you hear that this guy was in the shower, naked, with a kid, you immediately take the high road, report the incident to the authorities for them to investigate and place the individual on suspension, pending the results. You do not take his key away and write the whole thing off.
I still think he or his lawyer or whoever could try to argue it how I'm saying.
 
Quote
I know you like to take the opposing side for a good debate but this is not one to do that with. This is absolutely egregious, and S9er is absolutely right. The entire PSU AD and probably a few more folks are dead men walking.
I'm not sure how anyone after the President and his subordinates already listed could get blame. There was clearly a cover up at some point and people didn't find out, so how can they be held for that they couldn't know. But I really don't care this much and I hope all the heads roll that need a'rollin'.

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Offline s9er

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2011, 10:56:59 am »
After 3 attempts (I quit reading out of anger) I finally read the full text. Makes you want to puke. Kid touchers and rapists are the lowest of the low- I hope Jerry gets all the shower sex he wants from an inmate like Adebesi.
 
On the global front- I don't know how Penn State coaches (any sport) can look a parent in eye and tell them they are going to protect their kid.. The Athletic Department from the top down would need to be gutted before I would even consider sending one of my kids there to play a sport.
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Offline stonecoldken

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2011, 01:20:42 pm »
Some people say JoePa told the AD, but the AD did nothing.  That being said, if you were told in '02 of someone, why would the guy ever be around after that?
 
I heard a story, which I never shared because JoePa was untouchable, & no one would believe it, but now well, it makes you wonder.  My Dad's family is from PA.  My Aunt has a friend who went to Penn St in the '80's, & my aunt's friend said that a friend of her's was raped by a FB player, & JoePa covered it up.  At 1st I wasn't sure when she told me this in the mid '90's, but now....
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Offline Mullins Maniac

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Re: Fire Joe Paterno
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2011, 02:23:36 pm »
Joe Pa out. Should be by the end of the week in my opinion. I am sure more are to follow.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-said-to-be-planning-paternos-exit.html
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